My Review of Inner Engineering: Pros and Cons

[Socrates]

@Leo Gura The sneaky thing is that this is a fear which is actively preventing you from going a step further.

Let's do those in-person events you mentioned a while back and see what happens.

I bet many conscious businesses could be created by such events but if we are afraid this is gonna be a cult we cut ourselves short. 

[Leo Gura]

17 minutes ago, Salvijus said:

You're underrestimating the power of shambhavi. Slowly it trasforms you into absolutely pure being. You have to try it to believe it. 

What you're under-estimating is that Shambhavi will be corrupted once Sadhguru dies. As all spiritual techniques are. And then the fools who practice it blindly, blindly believing it to be the absolute purest thing (because you drilled that idea into their conformist heads), will end up devils.

[Leo Gura]

6 minutes ago, Socrates said:

The sneaky thing is that this is a fear which is actively preventing you from going a step further.

Here you need to carefully distinguish fear from healthy caution.

I'm not here speaking about of some personal fear I have.

I'm here teaching you about the very real dynamics of devilry. You guys are overlooking the depth and nuances of some of these devilry dynamics which I'm trying to point out to you.

That's all. This isn't about me.

[Leo Gura]

2 minutes ago, Salvijus said:

The only devil in the world is a limited identity. Only because your identity is limited you can harm others.

Isha is a limited identity. Isha is the very thing which will spawn the devil.

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And with a practice of shambhavi your identity expends and becomes universal. Shambhavi was created exacly for this purpose. 

Which is precisely why the devil will corrupt Shambhavi. Shambhavi will be twisted around for the opposite purpose.

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So no. Isha followers will never comit crimes in the future in the name of sadhguru. Just impossible. Shambhavi is too lifetransforming. It was made for this very purpose. 

Hahahaha

[Leo Gura]

5 minutes ago, Salvijus said:

just look how much integrity is being maintained in the programs. Every word is scripted.

Integrity cannot be scripted. Evil is scripted. Integrity requires consciousness. Scripts are not conscious, they are mechanical. Those scripts are precisely the Trojan Horse the devil will use to corrupt Shambhavi.

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And when sadhguru dies. There will be rules about who can become teachers and who dont and every teacher will must teach in exacly the same way as it is today. 

Those rules will be corrupted and used to teach devilry, as happened with Christianity, Islam, Buddhism, Judaism, and all the rest.

You cannot script consciousness! This is what you're not understanding and what Sadhguru has neglected to teach you.

Any time you script consciousness, it ceases being consciousness.

[Scholar]

4 minutes ago, Salvijus said:

It wont become corrupted because just look how much integrity is being maintained in the programs. Every word is scripted. And when sadhguru dies. There will be rules about who can become teachers and who dont and every teacher will must teach in exacly the same way as it is today. 

If vipassana survived for 2500years. I think isha will be much more successful in maintaining its purity. 

The fact that you think it is uncorruptable is the best indicator for how easily corruptable it will be.

[Socrates]

@Leo Gura I am aware of the issue but have you thought that this overcautious attitude potentially postponed your tour for example?

Do you have any updates on "Actualized Tour Coming Soon To A City Near You"?

You either do something or you don't, if you don't you accept the status quo which is unconsciousness if you do you risk for misinterpretation and devilry. The game is rigged.

[Scholar]

1 minute ago, Salvijus said:

You say that based on what? You simply think that Bramacharies and sanyasis are so dumb and not able to understand the importence of sadhguru's vision? 

These Bramacharies and sanyasis are being trained for 20-30 years to ensure that they will continue the process after he's dead. And then other monks will continue after them. Like that. It will go on. If vipassana survived i don't see why isha shouldnt survive. It only seems even more plausable that isha will remain its purity. 

I would worry more about it being corrupted by people like you, who put absolute trust into it.

1 minute ago, Salvijus said:

Im just saying that the probability is very low. Seeing how sadhguru is conscious of this danger and how he forces these eilės word by word to be precise. And all the other things that he do. He is making sure this path to remain pure since he started isha from 30 years ago. He alread had a plan there. 

The deeper problem is that Sadhguru did not communicate to you the skepticism and autonomy that is required for this kind of thing to be less corruptable. If it truly was less corruptable, you would be sitting here being worried about how Sadhguru might be deluded and how he could have a blindspot, how even Sadhguru might not be able to overcome the forces of the ego.

 

The best sign that Leo is doing a good job is by seeing how skeptical people are about him, even his followers. It is probably very difficult to have a good balance between being an authority and still have your students be autonomous, and I think that is something that Sadhguru simply has not as much awarenss of as Leo, it does not seem that way to me.

[Scholar]

Just now, Salvijus said:

Mmkey.. 

Lol, how you just took that phrase completely out of context and how deified Sadhguru is in your mind is just the most ironic and beautiful way to prove me point. It could not have been done in a better way.

[CreamCat]

39 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Imagine if you will that more people end up killed in the name of Sadhguru than Jesus.

Is Sadhguru really becoming a bigger super star than Jesus Christ?

I doubt because Jesus Christ set the bar for spiritual stardom really high.

Jesus is a mythic superhero of religion.

Edited September 18, 2019 by CreamCat

[How to be wise]

23 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Integrity cannot be scripted. Evil is scripted. Integrity requires consciousness. Scripts are not conscious, they are mechanical. Those scripts are precisely the Trojan Horse the devil will use to corrupt Shambhavi.

Those rules will be corrupted and used to teach devilry, as happened with Christianity, Islam, Buddhism, Judaism, and all the rest.

You cannot script consciousness! This is what you're not understanding and what Sadhguru has neglected to teach you.

Any time you script consciousness, it ceases being consciousness.

Let the sadhguru of the next generation deal with those problems. 

[Scholar]

1 minute ago, Salvijus said:

That statement you made is a clear statement that you have no intelligence to see the differerence between Leo and sadhguru. Thus į dissmissed everything you sayed as nonsense. 

Btw im not even a sadhguru follower. I haven't done any of his practices for over a year. I'm practicing self-inquiry and following Mooji. So I dont think you made any point at all. Just some gibberish. 

Yes, dismiss everything I say as nonsense. Call that which goes against your beliefs gibberish. Be arrogant. Doesn't sound like devilry at all.

[Calmness]

This thread is gold it shows the defense mechanisms and survival strategies of the ego 1on1. Just contemplate how do you know that you belief is true. It is not different than an evangelical saying what in the bible is is true because it is the word of god.

And if yo go back in the past a lot of people truly believed in Hitler because he created the autobahn and created lots of jobs. And through this he really improved their life. 

You are on the one side saying you could be wrong and it is just a belief but on the other side demonizing everyone who disagrees with you. It just shows how tricky the ego is and how brilliant its defense mechanisms and survival strategies are.

[tsuki]

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

Again, tell that to Hitler.

Every powerful tool gets co-opted by devils. The devil is not interested in co-opting weak tools. He want's the most powerful ones. The devil wants to corrupt the highest good, the highest truth. So you proclaiming that you have the highest good and highest truth only attracts the devil closer.

By not understanding this, devilry is created.

Then what is the solution? Sticking with simplicity and hiding in plain sight? Avoiding powerful tools condemns you to obscurity.
If 5-MEO is as powerful as you claim, it will be (and it have been) co-opted by devil. Putting the responsibility on the user does not prevent the devil from working. I can easily imagine people being brainwashed by psychedelics into joining cults.
Even making the platform open-source does not solve the problem because there will be people of power.

Can't you see that human effort is not enough? You cannot liberate yourself. It cannot be manufactured.
Devotion to God is the final method and Gurus are the middle men, its symbols.

Edited September 18, 2019 by tsuki

[Calmness]

32 minutes ago, tsuki said:

I can easily imagine people being brainwashed by psychedelics into joining cults.
 

How could that happen if you do psychedelics by your own and just trust you direct experience?

 

34 minutes ago, tsuki said:

 You cannot liberate yourself.

If you are god why can't you?

 

42 minutes ago, Salvijus said:

It's like a child says to phd mathematichian you could have made a mistake, you maybe have blindspots. Yes maybe he does but it's not going to be you who finds them. It's not for you to descide if he's right or wrong. He's too uncomprehensible to your limited mind at this point.

Another core belief. I often found mistakes in school that teachers made. I was not always right but often. And to really understand things you have to question the stuff that is taught and not just blindly copy it because it is from the teacher. Never forget no one is without fault.

[tsuki]

@Calmness You, as an ego, cannot liberate yourself. If you experience yourself as God, then there is nothing to liberate.

17 minutes ago, Calmness said:

How could that happen if you do psychedelics by your own and just trust you direct experience?

How about deciding that you are not growing fast enough on your own and decide to find a self-proclaimed shaman over the internet that will take you places if you just trip with him?

How about stumbling upon a suggestive video on YouTube when you are in a vulnerable state?

My point was than no power is safe, this is not specific to psychedelics. I am not defending devotion, it is very powerful as well.

Edited September 18, 2019 by tsuki

[atlanticgirl]

@Leo Gura Completely agree.

[atlanticgirl]

@Derek White I agree. I would recommend to someone that takes the course and it benefits them, focus on the practice itself, but be cautious about getting involved with the organization. Use some discernment to separate the value and aims of the practice, as opposed to getting swept up in cultishness, which will lead you away from Self-realization, not towards it.

i have not visited either of the ashrams. Here I want to point out a contradiction from Sadhguru. On the one hand, he (correctly) says we need to drop ideas about sacred vs profane. Given that, we therefore should be understanding that everything is sacred, not only Sadhguru’s ‘consecrated’ spaces. 

[Forestluv]

3 hours ago, tsuki said:

Can't you see that human effort is not enough? You cannot liberate yourself. It cannot be manufactured.
Devotion to God is the final method and Gurus are the middle men, its symbols.

I'm curious of the context of "yourself" used here. There comes a point that "yourself" vs "non-yourself" breaks down.  "yourself to non-yourself" is a construction of the mind. As well, who/what is it that devotes "their self" to God? You say that Gurus are the middle men of symbols, yet isn't "yourself" also a middle man of symbols?

[tsuki]

1 hour ago, Serotoninluv said:

I'm curious of the context of "yourself" used here. There comes a point that "yourself" vs "non-yourself" breaks down.  "yourself to non-yourself" is a construction of the mind.

The idea that there is a separate entity that needs to be liberated (enlightened) is just that - an idea.
While the idea is believed in, it appears as real, solid and concrete, but it cannot be liberated because it is mistaken.
In actuality, there is nobody there to liberate. Not through any form of effort coming from that illusory idea.

1 hour ago, Serotoninluv said:

As well, who/what is it that devotes "their self" to God?

The person, while it appears.

1 hour ago, Serotoninluv said:

You say that Gurus are the middle men of symbols, yet isn't "yourself" also a middle man of symbols?

I said that Gurus are middle-men of God, the symbol of God. Devotion is a way of stilling the mind.
I did not mean Guru as a title passed down the tradition, but rather whatever one finds elevating.
In some traditions, people are Gurus because seekers find traditions to be elevating. I would suspect that this is mostly present in blue countries, but the appearance of a teacher is helpful regardless of stage of development.

Edited September 18, 2019 by tsuki