Is total detachment just commiting suicide?

[Pouya]

What's there to live for when someone is fully detatched?

If I detatched from everything, i wouldn't mind if my family gets raped and butchered and I wouldn't care if I lived in a small box and I had to shit there and eat there at the same time.

Or i wouldn't care if someone puts a knife on my throat and cuts it open.

It just seems too much for me. It's either impossible to become totally detatched or it makes you a suicidal person who doesn't give a shit.

And small degrees of "overcomming fear" won't fucking matter because fear of death or losing loved ones will always be there.

Edited September 17, 2019 by Pouya

[tsuki]

Once you build your life up to a certain point, you don't need to rely on fear to maintain homeostasis.
The fact that you dismantle you fear does not make you an imbecile. On the contrary.

I think that you fear being fearless.

[Gili Trawangan]

There's a subtle but crucial difference between "I don't care what happens", which is what you tried to describe, and "I don't mind what happens", which is what Krishnamurti once said and more closely relates to detachment. 

[Pouya]

@tsuki Not fearing anything seems very disfunctional from the POV of surviving. If I really disidentified with my body for example, I could just put my hands on a burning fire and keep them there. It's not me after all.

Yeah it's great to learn to let go and accept certain things but putting aside fear and attachment completely is not a good idea.

[Pouya]

What I actually am is awareness. But it doesn't seem that way when things get physically or even conceptually dengerous.

[tsuki]

Just now, Pouya said:

If I really disidentified with my body for example, I could just put my hands on a burning fire and keep them there.

No. Fear is a repulsive impulse.
Lack of fear is not attractive, it's neutral.

The fact that you don't fear fire does not mean that you are attracted to being burned. It gives you space and clarity to react consciously.
What you are imagining is that fear is what shapes your intelligence into a functioning adult. That idea is mistaken!

[Pouya]

@tsuki then let's say the whole idea of investigating fear is just become aware of it and act consciously when it happens. Then the goal to become absolutely fearless is far away from my reach and really, I shouldn't care about becoming that. 

Then I can't really claim I am not the body or the brain. Even if I experience reality being subjective and only apperience, my identity is still here.

Maybe the identity never goes away unless it just dies.

Edited September 17, 2019 by Pouya

[bejapuskas]

@Pouya  I think you can go through a phase of I don't care what happens and I really care what happens and then, when you realize the flaws of each, you become free from both and you can just do whatever you want and be detached.

[tsuki]

2 minutes ago, Pouya said:

then let's say the whole idea of investigating fear is just become aware of it and act consciously when it happens. Then the goal to become absolutely fearless is far away from my reach and really I shouldn't really care about becoming that. 

At first, yes. The goal is to practice your identity-release muscle and dismantle fear as it arises.
But at some point, you will get so good at this that you will be constantly aware of the identities you assume that fear will not be an issue.
Don't make it into anything more difficult than it is. You are already creating 100% of your fear, but you are not doing it consciously.

7 minutes ago, Pouya said:

Then I can't really claim I am not the body or the brain. Even if I experience reality being subjective and only apperience, my identity is still here.

Why can't you claim that?
The mind has its identity and it is attached to the body. You are neither the body, nor the mind.

[Pouya]

7 minutes ago, tsuki said:

Why can't you claim that?

Because I can do many contemplations on what I am and even if I realize some truth, deep down, I cannot let go of what I think I am.

Edited September 17, 2019 by Pouya

[tsuki]

6 minutes ago, Pouya said:

Because I can do many contemplations on what I am and even if I realize some truth, deep down, I cannot let go of what I think I am.

How does 'letting go' look like from your point of view? How would you go about letting go of being a body?

[TrynaBeTurquoise]

10 minutes ago, Pouya said:

Because I can do many contemplations on what I am and even if I realize some truth, deep down, I cannot let go of what I think I am.

How long have you been seriously doing this contemplation for?

[Pouya]

@tsuki Letting go for me means surrendering. Letting go means actively accepting the moment.

Then letting go of me being a body means accepting what the body is going through right now. It doesn't mean I get to harm it, it means if it's getring harmed, I wouldn't react so harshly and be cool with it.

Like one day I accidentally cut my finger and instead of freaking out, i would stay calm and just fix it the best way I could and go to a hospital. 

But what if I cut the finger and I don't care that the finger is bleeding. What happens then?

I mean there should even be a balance with fear too. Some fears are just not nessecary. Like many phobias. But some fundimental fears are better to stay.

Edited September 17, 2019 by Pouya

[Pouya]

@TrynaBeTurquoise 1.5 years. Great results in my opinion. Contemplation (not nessecary writing it down everytime) is my favorite and most effective practice.

[tsuki]

14 minutes ago, Pouya said:

Then letting go of me being a body means accepting what the body is going through right now. It doesn't mean I got harm it, it means if it's getring harmed, I wouldn't react so harshly and be cool with it.

Pretty much, yes.

14 minutes ago, Pouya said:

But what if I cut the finger and I don't care that the finger is bleeding. What happens then?

Hmmm.. you bleed out to death? lol
If you see that you are bleeding and decide to bleed out for whatever reason, what's wrong with that?
Once you're dead, there will be no mind to look back and say 'damn, I shouldn't have done that!'.

14 minutes ago, Pouya said:

I mean there should even be a balance with fear too. Some fears are just not nessecary. Like many phobias. But some fundimental fears are better to stay.

Again, you are holding on to a mistaken belief that fear is what gives you intelligence.
As Leo have put it in the video: fear is resistance to future event. It is resistance. It is not your ability to forecast, project, model, etc.
Fear is what hijacks your intelligence to perform automatic, pre-trained responses. Fear is not what determines the response speed. What is fast is your ability to forecast, understand and watch that forecast mindfully. The emotion is optional and it is a crutch.

Edited September 17, 2019 by tsuki

[Pouya]

@tsuki I agree fear makes people blind and they can do things they wouldn't think they could.

Btw that automatic response to danger is itself very intelligent and complex too. It's nature's beauty to make such a intelligent mechanism.

But this a new belief I found out today that i have which says "fear makes humans functioning". I need to work on it.

Edited September 17, 2019 by Pouya

[tsuki]

6 minutes ago, Pouya said:

Btw that automatic response to danger is itself very intelligent and complex too. It's nature's beauty to make such a intelligent mechanism.

Yes, absolutely! It's magnificent and ingenious.
Still, it is a crutch that can be overcome.

OH, and to answer your title question:
No. While your identity is dying, this is not suicide.
You are not the identities you assume.

Edited September 17, 2019 by tsuki

[Key Elements]

When "you" become the absolute infinity, "you" will not even think that transforming into a massive, one-and-only black hole is grandiose. "You" will simply be detached from yourself when "you" become that. It's only when you become the ego that you'll be vulnerable to grandiose thinking:

"Oh yeah! I made it! I became a multi-millionaire. I'm set for life. But, wait a minute... isn't being the sun, the moon, the stars, or a black hole more powerful? "

[zeroISinfinity]

@Key Elements Forbidden fruit called Blackhole. 

Yeah.... There is nothing better, there is nothing better. 

Glorious return one day meanwhile serve devils. 

Edited September 17, 2019 by zeroISinfinity

[Pouya]

@Key Elements @tsuki After contemplating this fear problem more, i see that full detachment is unimaginable for me right now and until I get there (50+ years) I can't judge how it might look like. My relative view of this is just temporarily and instead of worrying about "What if"s I better work on gradually developing.