If Without Meaning There Is No Emotions, Why Does A 3 Month Old Smiles And Feels Joy Or Happy When She Sees Me?

[Locomike]

If without meaning there is no emotions, why does a 3 month old smiles and feels joy or happy when she sees me? 

This came up in my mind today as i watched leos latest video of without meaning things dont exist. Without this made up language that someone created the words to there should not be any emotions. Are emotions a primitive instinct without meaning? 

[Mal]

@Locomike Hi Mike,

Very interesting question. 

In my musings I came to the conclusion that some emotions are like residues from past events and the ego self is the accumulation of all our past experiences.

If you have not already I urge you to make the effort for a short period of time to suspend all judgement or refrain from taking a psychological perspective on your experience. I hope that you will quickly realize that indeed your thinking mind is made up of judgements and mental positions, and the thinking minds reflection of this is the egoic emotional body. Indeed you will also notice a watcher who merely "see's" experience without adding anything to it or interpreting experience through a mental/emotional conditioned pattern. This is what I think a babys experience is prior to the child forming it's socialized identity. There are still changing states because there are physiological needs and there is still meaning, but the perception comes from a place of innocence rather than the accumulated meaning of past experience amd thus there are no psychological needs - it is a purer perception and is the essence of positivity beyond the conventional polarised mental positions of positive vs. negative thinking.  In my opinion this is the state of "being"

Mal 

Edited May 15, 2016 by Mal

[Henri]

@Locomike These are not emotions but feelings a three month old child is experiencing.

There is no real differentiation between object and subject at this time and the child is experiencing from a innocent kind of oneness. 

[Ayla]

On 5/15/2016 at 8:06 AM, Locomike said:

If without meaning there is no emotions, why does a 3 month old smiles and feels joy or happy when she sees me? 

This came up in my mind today as i watched leos latest video of without meaning things dont exist. Without this made up language that someone created the words to there should not be any emotions. Are emotions a primitive instinct without meaning? 

What tells you that she is smiling and happy? A thought?  

These are not emotions, it is an instinct,  pre-programming, a "default". Every species has it so that small animals are being liked by parents and their own species and so that they can survive. 

[Emerald]

On May 15, 2016 at 1:06 AM, Locomike said:

If without meaning there is no emotions, why does a 3 month old smiles and feels joy or happy when she sees me? 

This came up in my mind today as i watched leos latest video of without meaning things dont exist. Without this made up language that someone created the words to there should not be any emotions. Are emotions a primitive instinct without meaning? 

It isn't true that in order for emotions to exist there needs to be a meaning. Emotions consist of sensations in the body in conjunction with thoughts in the mind. Even if the thoughts (meanings) aren't there yet in the case of a baby, the bodily sensations still remain and are interpreted as pleasant or unpleasant. 

[Locomike]

Thank you everyone for guiding me in the correct direction here and helping me understand this a little bit better. 

[Donald]

Human brain is hardwired . The "old" part of our brain does the job. It works based on triggers, your traits trigger a sense of familiarity in the baby or maybe you smiled and the baby smiled back in this case empathy  ( mirror neurons) .

Try to smile to a baby chimp , you will get the same result ?

[Galyna]

@Henri

hey, Henri!

what is the difference between feeling and emotion? Guess feeling is a continuous emotion and it is the same. 

what do you think?

[Henri]

@Galyna An emotion is coming after the thought and is in the head. A feeling is from the heart, to be exactly from the heart-chakra.

So quite a difference don`t you think? 

[Salaam]

1 hour ago, Henri said:

@Galyna An emotion is coming after the thought and is in the head. A feeling is from the heart, to be exactly from the heart-chakra.

So quite a difference don`t you think? 

That's not how it works. Emotions and thoughts inter-relate. A thought can spark an emotion, an emotion can spark a thought, a focus can spark both. There is no fixed hierarchy. And feelings come from all over the body, not just the heart. For me, chakras are the electrical charges found around most of the major organs. I can change and sync up the charges of my chakras at will, because I've worked for so long with electromagnetic tension.

But anyways, we can't make the mistake of thinking language = meaning = mind.

Our awareness is way more than our mind or brain, it's an interconnected system that also includes our nervous system and all the energy/information traveling back and forth across it. So our spinal cord, somatosensory systems, proprioceptive system, enteric nervous system (that gut-response), and many other things, including pressures and by-products of all these systems interacting. So all that plus pneumatic, chemical, electromagnetic pressures, as well as the build-up of by-product from chemical cascades like hydrogen peroxide, which manifests during oxidative stress (when the mitochondria in our cells are breathing/working at higher thresholds).

A baby has all those systems on-line and ready to go at 3-months old and regardless of having a language system, it can still focus and connect with a person's smile and have a positive chemistry with it, that cascades a response of sharing a smile in kind.

Don't underestimate all that's being communicated with a smile and all the ways our various systems can pick up and respond to that communication. People need to be way more humble about what they think they have figured out. There is so much more.

 

[Henri]

@Salaam

46 minutes ago, Salaam said:

That's not how it works. Emotions and thoughts inter-relate. A thought can spark an emotion, an emotion can spark a thought, a focus can spark both. There is no fixed hierarchy. And feelings come from all over the body, not just the heart.

Yes, I agree with this. It`s just that for a lot of people it is important to make the distinction between the emotions and the feelings, most do not. And off course feelings can come from all parts of the body, as awareness can also.

[Salaam]

15 hours ago, Henri said:

@Salaam

Yes, I agree with this. It`s just that for a lot of people it is important to make the distinction between the emotions and the feelings, most do not. And off course feelings can come from all parts of the body, as awareness can also.

Yea, I prefer differentiating it as emotions and sensations, since the word "feelings" is typically associated with emotions.

There is always an effect and affect of emotions. Effect is what the emotion feels like and affect is how the emotion shifts and changes you. The first one is subjective and the second one is objective and they both inter-relate and counter-influence each other, with an electromagnetic tension between them.  

[Harry]

@Salaam What do you mean by 'electromagnetic tension'?

[Salaam]

4 hours ago, Harry said:

@Salaam What do you mean by 'electromagnetic tension'?

Well, have you ever held a magnet and piece of metal and played with their attraction? Holding the metal just off the cusp of attaching to the magnet and feeling the pull of it's attractive force, the tension of it straining against your restraint.

These attractive (and repulsive forces) happen all the time between inter-connecting things and balancing them in parallel creates capacitance. Whether it's the chemical covalent bonds between molecules, the attraction inherent in sexual tension between two people, or the attraction or repulsion you feel inside yourself when you come across different beliefs and how they have chemistry with the beliefs you've internalized within yourself (acceptance or rejection vis a vis attraction or repulsion). Every thought, movement of muscle, shift in focus has some level of tension between it and whatever it's connecting or inter-relating with.

Holding this tension, is what allows you to restrain yourself from snapping or jumping to conclusions about things in a binary manner. So rather than polarities you have nuance. So for instance, people who treat thoughts or identity as a binary "good or bad" are not holding tension, which would allow them nuance, which allows for context and creativity and specificity. Knowing when thoughts or identity in specific contexts work with you, and when they need a helping hand, so you don't just jump to "identity is the ego" and an extreme repulsive action.

I've been working with Tension for years, creating larger and larger system-wide levels of capacitance and corresponding nuance.



 

[Harry]

15 hours ago, Salaam said:

Well, have you ever held a magnet and piece of metal and played with their attraction? Holding the metal just off the cusp of attaching to the magnet and feeling the pull of it's attractive force, the tension of it straining against your restraint.

These attractive (and repulsive forces) happen all the time between inter-connecting things and balancing them in parallel creates capacitance. Whether it's the chemical covalent bonds between molecules, the attraction inherent in sexual tension between two people, or the attraction or repulsion you feel inside yourself when you come across different beliefs and how they have chemistry with the beliefs you've internalized within yourself (acceptance or rejection vis a vis attraction or repulsion). 


 

I'm sorry, I may be being close-minded, but this sounds like a whole load of pseudoscience. Could you send me some links that a could have a browse through please?

[Salaam]

1 hour ago, Harry said:

I'm sorry, I may be being close-minded, but this sounds like a whole load of pseudoscience. Could you send me some links that a could have a browse through please?

Here's some wiki links and you can do further research on your own time. But, really the best thing for you would be to work with becoming sensitive to Tension in your own life. Attraction and Repulsion is fundamental to bonding and connection. It kind of surprises me that you find it hard to believe, it plays such a foundational role in human life.

Covalent Bonds - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Covalent_bond 

"These electron pairs are known as shared pairs or bonding pairs, and the stable balance of attractive and repulsive forces between atoms, when they share electrons, is known as covalent bonding."

Van Der Waals - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Van_der_Waals_force

"In physical chemistry, the van der Waals forces (or van der Waals' interaction), named after Dutch scientist Johannes Diderik van der Waals, are the residual attractive or repulsive forces between molecules or atomic groups that do not arise from a covalent bond, or electrostatic interaction of ions or of ionic groups with one another or with neutral molecules.[1] The resulting van der Waals forces can be attractive or repulsive."

"The ability of geckos – which can hang on a glass surface using only one toe – to climb on sheer surfaces has been attributed to the van der Waals forces between these surfaces and the spatulae, or microscopic projections, which cover the hair-like setae found on their footpads."

Mutual Capacitance - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mutual_capacitance

"Mutual capacitance is intentional or unintentional capacitance that occurs between two charge-holding objects or conductors, in which the current passing through one passes over into the other. In transmission lines, when conductors are closely spaced together, the air or material separating the lines acts as a dielectric, and the conductors act as a capacitors plates.

All objects in the universe, conducting or non-conducting, that hold charge with respect to another exhibit capacitance. An object's capacitance increases when another object is brought closer to it. The human body is a great charge-holding object (capacitor) (this biological property is called body capacitance), and sensitive capacitive detectors can be made to function as proximity detectors."

Capacitance - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capacitance

"A common form is a parallel-plate capacitor, which consists of two conductive plates insulated from each other, usually sandwiching a dielectric material. In a parallel plate capacitor, capacitance is directly proportional to the surface area of the conductor plates and inversely proportional to the separation distance between the plates."

Electromagnetism - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electromagnetism

'The electromagnetic force plays a major role in determining the internal properties of most objects encountered in daily life. Ordinary matter takes its form as a result of intermolecular forces between individual molecules in matter. Electrons are bound by electromagnetic wave mechanics into orbitals around atomic nuclei to form atoms, which are the building blocks of molecules. This governs the processes involved in chemistry, which arise from interactions between the electrons of neighboring atoms, which are in turn determined by the interaction between electromagnetic force and the momentum of the electrons."

Foxes using Tension: http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/notrocketscience/2011/01/11/foxes-use-the-earths-magnetic-field-as-a-targeting-system/

[Harry]

@Salaam  I study Physics at Undergraduate level. I'm not questioning the existance of electromagnetic phenomena.

I am questioning the link you have made with EM and a whole host of other events which, in my eyes, it has no role in. 

I agree attraction and repulsion have a large role to play in human life but I don't understand how EM has anything to do with this.

 

Edited May 19, 2016 by Harry

[Salaam]

2 hours ago, Harry said:

@Salaam  I study Physics at Undergraduate level. I'm not questioning the existance of electromagnetic phenomena.

I am questioning the link you have made with EM and a whole host of other events which, in my eyes, it has no role in. 

I agree attraction and repulsion have a large role to play in human life but I don't understand how EM has anything to do with this.

 

It's kind of ironic that your questioning the "link" that EM has with daily life, when EM's fundamental role in nature is how things link up and bond together (or repulse and sever).

It's all good though. I understand the dissonance.

Anyways, let's connect and link it up for you and see if you still have that feeling.

In the covalent bond blurb it mentions that a bond is formed when there is a "stable balance of attractive and repulsive forces between atoms". This balancing or holding in parallel creates a connection between these two atoms that gives them capacitance or the ability to store a charge that is proportional to the distance and surface area between the two atoms, as well as being reliant on the continued stability of balance or chemistry in the tension between the attractive/repulsive forces between them. This charge will then have it's own attractive or repulsive properties and abilities that will mediate in contrast to whatever other system it is exposed to and interacting with.

You have no problem seeing that that occurs on the micro level to mediate the formation and interaction of shapes and structures correct? Why wouldn't you think that has a cumulative and synergistic effect as it expands from the micro to the macro? Sub-systems link up and interact with other sub-systems to create larger macro systems all the time, this is the nesting principle. Electrical coils are an example of this, each coil having mutual capacitance with the coil before and after it, but a flower is also an example, with each petal having a similar kind of mutual, synergistic capacitance with each other so they can cooperate in the expression of certain functions.  So why wouldn't human beings with all their different systems and sub-systems also be an example of this?

What we trust or what we internalize is effected by these attractive and repulsive forces just like anything else. You for instance already hold beliefs around this subject that are "capped" with conclusions. Those conclusions all carry some degree of populated context, this context can be static and binary, or dynamic and nuanced, and inter-connected with other beliefs to form micro and macro mental patterns/structures. As it comes into contact with beliefs from other people who have different contexts with their conclusions, your body will automatically express the interaction of that connective tension as either a feeling of dissonance and then an action/reaction of rejection or a feeling of consonance and then an action/reaction of acceptance and some degree of internalization.

Now there is a subjective narration of a belief or internalization, but there is also an objective chemical pattern, that determines how deeply it's stored within us, as well as the fidelity or coherency of it's belief. This chemical pattern has the opportunity to be modified every time it is activated in response to stimuli and compelled to re-consolidate. It's within that chemical pattern, where the above attractive/repulsive forces are played out (from micro to macro) determining whether the new information stimulating the belief is compatible or contrary, as well as whether or not it is compatible or contrary to larger inter-connected belief systems. Which then will decide if this new information is accepted and added on to it's conclusionary context, accepted as a replacement to a prior internalization, or rejected and dismissed.

All of these things occur within fractions of a second, but I've diversified my senses and expanded their sensitivities to enough of a degree to experience and track all these things as they occur within me. I can feel the chemical cascades when my body reacts to conflicting beliefs and how it expresses through my emotional response. I can hold a belief open and expand it with nuance, before letting it close, compress/consolidate, and re-internalize to be stored within my sub-conscious or automated systems. I have the tensile resiliency to do this with not just low intensity/low charge beliefs, but deeply internalized and populated belief systems with much stronger charges and consequent emotional reactions.

It's in my working with Tension, that I gained the ability to consciously choose what I Trust/Internalize and how I respond to things that are incompatible with my internalizations, so I don't miss out and dismiss nuance, that can have a healthy impact on my view or reality.


 

Edited May 19, 2016 by Salaam