Vladimir Putin: the full interview

[SoothedByRain]

What do you reckon Mr President would think of Leo's series Conscious Politics?

How fully intergrated could Putin be within SD Stage Yellow you think?

Fascinating to observe . . .

[Scholar]

It's so interesting, you can really sense the tension, everyone knowing they are interviewing the most powerful man in the world. And Putin knows, too.

[Nivsch]

Putin can't be any higher than orange and even this is a complimemt.

Edited September 14, 2019 by Nivsch

[allislove]

1 hour ago, Nivsch said:

Putin can't be any higher than orange and even this is a complimemt.

+1

[Forestluv]

I think he makes some cogent points - especially about U.S. dynamics. Yet I’m not seeing much yellow - more like Orange. . . . Orange can be intellectually sophisticated.

[Leo Gura]

Problem is, nothing he says publicly can be trusted or taken at face value.

[SoothedByRain]

7 hours ago, Serotoninluv said:

Orange can be intellectually sophisticated.

Yeah, exactly that.

7 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Problem is, nothing he says publicly can be trusted or taken at face value.

Bet he has a ton of body language training up his sleeve.

[Nivsch]

To be yellow you must integrate green.

Even IQ of 3000 and super computer inside your head won't give you nothing from yellow.

[allislove]

9 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Problem is, nothing he says publicly can be trusted or taken at face value.

I have a feeling that he is not aware that he lies to himself and the world.  

He definitely must read "Mistakes are made but not by me". 

[SoothedByRain]

2 minutes ago, dimitri said:

He definitely must read "Mistakes are made but not by me". 

with a dash of Rumi on the side

[Scholar]

Guys there are developmental streams in spiral dynamics. Being highly developed on one does not mean one went through a hippie phase and became more emotional.

For example, being cognitively on green is very different from being emotionally on green. You can't just simplify this away. Putin could easily be green and yellow on some of these streams:

But blue, red and orange on others. It doesn't mean he skipped green, it just means that your understanding of what green is on all of these developmental lines is lacking. Green cognition does not equal green emotion.

Edited September 15, 2019 by Scholar

[Scholar]

24 minutes ago, Etherial Cat said:

Do you perceive Green development lines in Putin? 

Yes, cognition and contemplation seem to be somewhere up there, otherwise I do not think he would be able to navigate the conversations like he does. He was KGB, he was able to pocket russia and create a vertical power structure which almost depends on him, which is not easy to do in a competitive environment like that.

I haven't studied Putin a lot but these two lines would be my guesses. Orange is too limited to allow for this kind of sophistication, imo.

[Scholar]

51 minutes ago, Etherial Cat said:

I don't see Green cognition nor Green contemplation. 

Green cognition would reflect a thorough understanding of relativism and post-modernism.

As an illustration, he's been actively fighting deconstructionism as such as in gender, by passing a statute which criminalize what he calls "Gay Propaganda" to influence minors. So I genuinely doubt that he's there. 

Putin appears to me as a modernist- he believes mostly in great narratives- or at least he used to and shows traits of it still in certain areas. 

What does that have to do with cognition? Philosophy is not connected to cognition. Cognition is how you perceive and understand reality. It is about how the mind operates, not what kind of position it holds.

A post formal operational mind is able to hold different lines of cognition, comparing them and switching between them. What kind of philosophy they will find attractive is dependent on the state of other developmental lines. For example, Putin's morality might be between absolutistic and individualistic, yet he can use relativistic cognition to achieve the goals which will be a consequence of his moral imperatives. Besides that, Putin might not be at all against gay people, but might be using these kinds of laws to gain popularity and approval from russians.

 

Again, you can't just throw all the lines of development together, see that one is not evolved and then claim that all of them are not evolved. Green cognition and contemplation don't have anything to do with values and philosophy, they are how a mind operates, how it tends to process data. What the data processing in the end will result it is of course dependent on the development of other lines. Putin's mind is way to flexible to not show any signs of post-formal.

[Nivsch]

@Scholar I dont believe in high saparation between those 13 parameters. They cannot be far from one another. I really cannot see green on putin at all. Somebody who eliminates people who oppose to him and arrests innocent people and suppress LGBTQ protections is red-blue and at most orange.

Edited September 15, 2019 by Nivsch

[Scholar]

6 minutes ago, Nivsch said:

@Scholar I dont believe in high saparation between those 13 parameters. They cannot be far from one another.

Why do you think so?

[Scholar]

21 minutes ago, Etherial Cat said:

I'm not an expert in development lines. 

But if cognition is "how you perceives and understands reality" and "how the mind operates", the spiral gives a clear model on what should be the operating system in a stage Green mind. Thats why those are correlated to philosophical movement as basically they are part of the Green spectrum of understanding thanks to the fact that the Green cognition is relativistic.

Beside, Putin doesn't seem to mostly process data through relativism either. Which seems logical, as if you would keep on using Green cognition, you'd end up alchemizing all your datas into green philosophy and understanding overtime.

All I can urge you is to read some books on this topic, in my opinion there is a huge lack of understanding of spiral dynamics and integral theory in this forum. It's like people only watched Leo's videos on the topic and didn't bother to read a single book.

There is no such thing as a "green" mind, that is a huge oversimplification. Doing so leads to losing all nuance, and that makes the entire model kind of useless. All it becomes is a categorization game instead of understanding the dynamics at play between groups and within the individual mind.

 

Post-orange cognition existed far before LGBTQ and Post-modernism were a thing, and these minds used that kind of cognition for completely different things. Why would there be developmental lines in the first place if they would all jump from one stage to the next synchronously? Just look at how it's depicted, they are line tentacles reaching into different stages. This can look highly variable, especially with extraordinary people like Putin who might not perfectly fit the model in the first place.

[Forestluv]

@Scholar I wouldn’t put Putin as yellow on the cognitive line. He seems restricted to rational/logical cognition and I haven’t seen him express the ability for post-rational/logical.

[Scholar]

12 minutes ago, Serotoninluv said:

@Scholar I wouldn’t put Putin as yellow on the cognitive line. He seems restricted to rational/logical cognition and I haven’t seen him express the ability for post-rational/logical.

But as far as I know you view the post-rational as emotional/intuitive, that's not how I view the cognitive line. Post formal operational does not equal post rational, as it still is bound to logical operators. Rather it is multiplistic and relativistic. The truly post-rational stuff happens at turquoise imo. Though I would not say with certainty that Putin is at yellow cognitively.

[Forestluv]

19 minutes ago, Scholar said:

But as far as I know you view the post-rational as emotional/intuitive

Imo, that is an elementary level of post-rational, post-logical. Yet emotion/intuitive can be quite advanced when liberated from intellectual constructs.

[Nivsch]

38 minutes ago, Serotoninluv said:

@Scholar I wouldn’t put Putin as yellow on the cognitive line. He seems restricted to rational/logical cognition and I haven’t seen him express the ability for post-rational/logical.

?