Lowest level of nonduality

[IndigoGeminiWolf]

What's it like at the lowest level of nonduality?

Leo has been many orders of magnitude beyond this.

Do you stop thinking?

Once one has a Kundalini awakening and is working toward it, how long will it be to reach the initial stages of nonduality?

[tsuki]

The lowest level of nonduality is duality. It is also the highest because the path goes full-circle.

[MuddyBoots]

Leo's done a video on Zen's ten oxherding pictures which describe the levels form the Zen Buddhist point of view.  The first stages are In Search Of The Bull, and Discovering The Footprints. It's symbolic of course, but we first get glimpses of the absolute nonduality while living in duality most of the time. Thinking may stop temporarily, or you notice the gaps between thoughts, or maybe thought is seen as part of the whole unity. It depends, you don't need to have a fixed idea about what will happen. 

Edited September 12, 2019 by MuddyBoots
Clarification.

[ajasatya]

4 hours ago, tsuki said:

The lowest level of nonduality is duality. It is also the highest because the path goes full-circle.

^

[IndigoGeminiWolf]

I mean when you're first in non-duality mindset. Do you no longer think?

[tsuki]

2 hours ago, IndigoGeminiWolf said:

Do you no longer think?

There is such a depth to this question, that I'm not going to give you a simple answer.
Thoughts appear, but there is no thinker.

[inFlow]

@IndigoGeminiWolf You become pure awareness. Awareness catches itself. The awareness becomes aware that the true self is the awareness. It's as if awareness see's itself in the mirror for the first time.

[Forestluv]

@IndigoGeminiWolf Have you done psychedelics before? They are the most reliable way to have a nondual experience and can serve as a reference point.

 

[IndigoGeminiWolf]

@Serotoninluv I did DMT and Ayahuasca about 15-20 times in the past. I smoked the DMT and drank the Ayahuasca. Never experienced nonduality I don't think. It didn't feel like love. It was bizarre and I was trying not to give into astonishment. I did go into hyperspace though, but I still didn't feel oneness or anything.

I even took THH sublingually before smoking the DMT to amplify its effects, and still didn't have a nondual experience. Though it was powerful.

Edited September 12, 2019 by IndigoGeminiWolf

[Forestluv]

@IndigoGeminiWolf For me, visuals are distracting. I much prefer headspace without visuals. You may want to try another psychedelic with less visuals. For example, 5-meo has no visuals and is very nondual for most people. Shrooms and LSD can work to, yet they can have all sorts of extra storylines. Ime, 5-meo is the clearest.

These thoughts are just based on my experience and observations: it seems humans (including me) are conditioned to perceive in duality and it takes work to decondition this into nonduality. Imagine only seeing one side of a coin your entire life and then learning there is another side of the coin. Glimpses of that other side is a huge awakening. Seeing and experience the other side of the coin (nonduality) can give contrast to the first side (duality). I think this is an important stage. Then, we can realize nonduality and duality are two sides of the same coin.

I would de-emphasize ideas that nondual experiences should be dramatic - like flopping around like a fish in a jungle. They can certainly be dramatic, yet they can also seem simple and obvious. I would also balance the idea that nondual experiences are something to work toward with nondual experiences are Now. Ime, a balance between both are important. If someone becomes to future oriented, they will miss out on Now (in which all nondual experiences occur).

You have likely already have had forms of nondual experiences. . . . Have you ever been in "the flow" while playing a sport, musical instrument or creating art? A "flow" in which time and "me" dissolved and there was simply pure presence of the moment? Have you ever had a moment of such love that there was no "me" and the "other"? There was simply love? Have you ever been awestruck by the beauty of nature that "you" and time stopped for a moment and there was simply awe and awareness of what is? . . . These are all forms on nondual experiences that most people have brief glimpses of, yet then quickly "snap out of it". They might be like "whoa, what was that?". Perhaps they dismiss it and get back into story mode. . . "Wow, I was in the flow! But I should have passed the ball". "Whoa, was that a moment of love? I wonder if she felt it too? What if only I felt it? What if I lose it?". "Wow, the Grand Canyon is amazing! I need to get a good picture to post on Instagram". . . Notice that each nondual glimpse is brief and the personal "character" quickly returns back to the conditioned dual state. . . A key is to recognize nondual glimpses you already have. Become aware of them (without intellectualizating about it). Over time, these nondual glimpses can extend.

Ime at early stages, I would say thinking was the #1 block toward nondual experiences. Thoughts themselves appear Now just like everything else. Yet thoughts are alluring and they can mesmerize a person into a dualitstic illusion. Nearly all me early nondual experiences were nonverbal and there was not engagement with thinking. There may have been some stray thoughts, but they didn't have the power of engagement. A few thoughts, would pass by, similar to the sound of bird chirps passing by. . . Then I wold "snap back" into thinking mode. . . 

 

[IndigoGeminiWolf]

I ordered some DPT. Would it be effective to do this before doing 5meo?

Yes, I've been in the flow, and I've been in love such that it made me cry and I felt expansive bliss out of my crown chakra.

[IndigoGeminiWolf]

When I'm meditating, there will be a point where there's an increase in energy, and it knocks me out. On the other side it feels like I'm beside myself and not myself. There is a connection to other things that I can feel. It is euphoric. But I only stay in that state for a few seconds before I snap out of it. In that state, I am hypersensitive even to my dog's fur brushing up against me which can make me nearly jump.

Is this a state of nonduality? I don't remember much when I come back from it, but it feels like home. I notice I have no thoughts of my own in that state. I am just observing.

Edited September 12, 2019 by IndigoGeminiWolf

[Inliytened1]

15 hours ago, IndigoGeminiWolf said:

What's it like at the lowest level of nonduality?

Leo has been many orders of magnitude beyond this.

Do you stop thinking?

Once one has a Kundalini awakening and is working toward it, how long will it be to reach the initial stages of nonduality?

The ego - you - dissolves and you become your true nature.  Your true nature is non-dual - Oneness.  This Oneness is Divine.  It is pure Being.  It is God awakening to itself.  As you - God -awakens - certain realizations shall enter you as direct consciousness and you ARE these realizations.   For example you will become directly aware of all of Reality.  You wont have to think it - you will know and be it instantaneously.    It is prior to human thought.

You are Truth itself.  

In this state you ARE consciousness - you are the whole of consciousness.  It is mystical and divine.  It is paradoxical.   It defies all logic and rationality because it is Infinite.  

Good luck!

Edited September 12, 2019 by Inliytened1

[IndigoGeminiWolf]

I'm just starting to be able to maintain the feeling of being "there" without getting knocked out. Again it only lasts a few seconds, but I am consious the whole time. It feels amazing. My ego hasn't dissolved though, but I feel connected and euphoric. It's a thick bliss that's like swimming in it, but it's not overly profound. It's just amazing.