Trump is Not Well

[giglio]

@Serotoninluv I'd have to look into it more. If I remember right the article I read was mainstream and not Fox News or something. If I get a chance I will dig into it more. I try to read both sides of it to see what is valid and what is not. Both sides throw around numbers that no one can verify independently. 

[giglio]

@abrakamowse Thanks. I'll try to watch it. I like to see both sides. Hopefully its not a hit piece. 

[abrakamowse]

@giglio Let me know what you think after watching it.

[Key Elements]

This movie reminds me of Trump. It also reminds me of the quote, "Judging the book by its cover." Two things: 1) We don't know the person on a personal level. 2) We are so blind to the warning signs because we don't have enough experience in life to connect the dots. This guy, Chance, the gardener, only has to fit the public profile and wave his hands to just get by in life in a "successful way." And, politics is just one aspect. Ask yourself (and I ask myself the same question too), how are you going to finally lead ppl in the right direction so that when you finally leave this world, this statement will come true:

This is done in your life purpose, and it's probably the biggest fish to fry in life.

[Forestluv]

@Key Elements There are various contexts and contextualizations. . . . If you saw a young vulnerable woman being overpowered and sexually abused by a man, how would you respond? How would we lead in this situation without anyone knowing we exist? . . . To me, it seems best to insert myself into the situation with a sense of ethical authority. To pull the man off of his victim and tell him that his behavior is inappropriate and that it will not be allowed to continue. Yet I would do this in a firm and empathetic way. I understand that the man may have been sexually molested himself as a child and may be suffering with his own internal demons.  I would acknowledge that and offer him help to heal through that - either through myself or professional counseling. Yet the sexual harassment of vulnerable women will not be allowed to continue. If necessary, I would bring the situation to community leaders and offer assistance if I might be helpful. Yet I wouldn’t pursue any recognition or awards for doing what’s right.

[Key Elements]

@Serotoninluv Oh..I was talking about something different when I posted that. Trump and that guy in the movie do not know how to play the cards they've been dealt with. So, they just play it in an unconscious manner thinking they know what they're doing. And then, I'm trying to say to find a way to lead ppl so that it will plant a seed. Ppl need to do their own work and discover themselves. It's like the saying, "give a man a fish feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish; feed him for life." Not so easy to do in a life purpose because we're all unique.

As for what you're trying to say, the victim need to find a way to go from victim to empowerment. Yes, sometimes if the victim can't do this herself because victimhood is all she knows, then someone else needs to step in to break that cycle. Too bad in such situations this could be learning the hard way. I could see how one day Trump could be destroyed. Once that happens, and let's say he ends up in prison for the rest of his life, then he will become the victim if he redeemed himself in prison. By then, it's too late for him.

 

[abrakamowse]

5 minutes ago, Key Elements said:

So, they just play it in an unconscious manner thinking they know what they're doing.

That's right, now I am suspecting that in fact he didn't even wanted to become president. I think he was pressured to do so, to return the favor to his "puppet master" Putin.

[Forestluv]

@Key Elements Yes, in some contexts leading by planting seeds can be a great way to lead. In Trump, I see a man that has experienced trauma and as been conditioned to behave as he does. He can’t help it and doesn’t know how to play the cards he has been dealt. Yet the same is true for a man that is sexually abusing others.  One could say they got dealt a bad hand and don’t know how to play that hand and are acting unconsciously. Yet they are also causing a lot of harm to others and that doesn’t help those that are being harmed. . . . I din’t think 100% anti-trump confrontational leadership is best, yet I also don’t think 100% seed planting is best. I think a combination is best.

In regards to the female victim, of course we could help with healing and empowerment. Yet that wasn’t what I was pointing at. To make it more dramatic: imagine spotting a man beating and raping a woman in the park. Helping her with victim mentality and personal empowerment may be beneficial down the line - yet if this guy kills her in the park, there won’t be any victim to empower. The first thing we need to do is step in, confront the man and get him off her. 

[Key Elements]

15 minutes ago, Serotoninluv said:

@Key Elements The first thing we need to do is step in, confront the man and get him off her. 

Yeah, of course. That's why I put this clip. The beginning was a domestic violence situation. A friend was helping a friend. But, are you as strong as her when the time comes and given the situation?

[Forestluv]

@Key Elements Fun video. Yes that is a form of empowerment and it takes a lot of courage.

I can see a lot of value in empowerment, leading quietly through example and understanding that those who cause harm may do so due to their own trauma and by acting out unconsciously. Yet I also see some situations with power dynamics that are so imbalanced that the recipient of harm has no chance of gaining sufficient empowerment to overcome their oppressor and it’s helpful for leaders to directly intervene and be noticed. For example young children being traumatized in cages in the border have no chance of getting empowered enough to overcome their oppressors. I think behind the scenes quiet leadership  to address the situation is helpful. I also think leaders directing inserting themselves, confronting oppressors and bringing it to the attention of society is also helpful. 

I volunteered for years in a psychiatric ward. Most of the patients I worked with were female victims of domestic violence. It would be great to empower women such that they can stand up to their abuser and smack him down like in the video. Yet that is not the reality I saw in the hospital. These women were virtually powerless. They were trapped in abusive homes and had nowhere to turn. No family, friends or social support system. They had no financial resources, lack of education and were dependent on their abuser for shelter and food. They were generally gaslighted and terrified to take any action that would upset their abuser. Most had been taken into the psychiatric ward after attempting suicide. The power dynamic was soooo far tilted toward the abuser that the video you posted looks like a naive and bizarre portrayal of domestic violence and how to address. 

[Key Elements]

@Serotoninluv Well then, our next step is to find a way to empower others like those gorgeous drag queens, or, better yet Gandhi. I was talking about him earlier in this thread. I started a life purpose thread. To reach higher levels of impact in this world, ask yourself, how are you going to use these info to become a leader to leaders? You become the leader maker causing ripple effects. Tough question to answer. Are you doing a life purpose? Gandhi did his very well. It goes very deep into the rabbit hole.

[Forestluv]

@Key Elements I’m not saying Ghandi wasn’t a good leader. He was a great leader within a context. It isn’t an either or thing for me. I’m not taking a position opposite to yours. There are different approaches and traits of good leaders. It is context dependent. You have offered some great traits for certain contexts. There are other traits of good leaders and other contexts. . . .

I would say one ability of a leader of leaders would be able to have a holistic view, be able to integrate various traits and skills of leaders, have vision for which traits/skills/approach is best for a given situation. They wouldn’t take a one size fits all approach. From an integrative holistic view, Ghandhi’s leadership skill set is an important piece, yet there is more. It goes deeper and broader. 

[Key Elements]

@Serotoninluv I know. What traits are you looking for now? Because the only way that I could show the best version of myself is to actually do it. Then I could see what needs to be improved. I have some other issues to deal with first at the moment.

Once you go through the process of making a powerful life purpose, there is no need to really explain yourself anymore. When you say: Toyota, Honda, or Lamborghini, we all know what you're talking about, but those are only cars. What you're doing with your life purpose has to be way beyond those.

[Key Elements]

1 hour ago, Serotoninluv said:

@Key Elements holistic 

Another key word: conglomerate

Showing and expressing all aspects of Spiral Dynamics. Show not tell. Show the healthy orange side first.  It needs to have a base in which the majority of ppl could relate at first glance. Then, you could go slowly down the rabbit hole.

[Key Elements]

6 hours ago, Serotoninluv said:

@Key Elements 

I volunteered for years in a psychiatric ward. Most of the patients I worked with were female victims of domestic violence. It would be great to empower women such that they can stand up to their abuser and smack him down like in the video. Yet that is not the reality I saw in the hospital. These women were virtually powerless. They were trapped in abusive homes and had nowhere to turn. No family, friends or social support system. They had no financial resources, lack of education and were dependent on their abuser for shelter and food. They were generally gaslighted and terrified to take any action that would upset their abuser. Most had been taken into the psychiatric ward after attempting suicide. The power dynamic was soooo far tilted toward the abuser that the video you posted looks like a naive and bizarre portrayal of domestic violence and how to address. 

I used to volunteer in something similar. Currently, I'm thinking: if I actually complete my life purpose, and I'm financially set, and then, I go back to volunteering again. I would know what to teach to get them out of their situation step-by-step. They shouldn't go back to their abuser. There are other ways to get out of it than having only a job as an option. Of course, step-by-step empowerment is necessary.

[Forestluv]

3 hours ago, Key Elements said:

@Serotoninluv What traits are you looking for now?

Social intelligence.

[Key Elements]

12 hours ago, Serotoninluv said:

@Key Elements The power dynamic was soooo far tilted toward the abuser that the video you posted looks like a naive and bizarre portrayal of domestic violence and how to address. 

There are always deep meanings behind certain movies, music, art, and stories. If a person lacks the experience in life, the story doesn't mean much. It may even look ridiculous and shallow. For instance, how often does the average Joe think of the book, Anne Frank, The Diary of a Young Girl? After reading it in middle school, probably never. However, a person who has experienced war as a child and who was in the same situation as Anne Frank, would totally relate to Anne Frank's story. She would never forget the people who were hiding her.

______

In other words, the video I posted was about a movie. It was a lot more than just about domestic violence. You also have to research and understand the consequences of one's actions (hitting someone) if you behave like that nowadays under certain circumstances. The movie took place in a different time, place, and culture.

[Forestluv]

7 hours ago, Key Elements said:

There are always deep meanings behind certain movies, music, art, and stories. If a person lacks the experience in life, the story doesn't mean much. It may even look ridiculous and shallow. For instance, how often does the average Joe think of the book, Anne Frank, The Diary of a Young Girl? After reading it in middle school, probably never. However, a person who has experienced war as a child and who was in the same situation as Anne Frank, would totally relate to Anne Frank's story. She would never forget the people who were hiding her.

______

In other words, the video I posted was about a movie. It was a lot more than just about domestic violence. You also have to research and understand the consequences of one's actions (hitting someone) if you behave like that nowadays under certain circumstances. The movie took place in a different time, place, and culture.

I’m referring to a different context and perspective. We are not on the same frequency. 

[DrewNows]

7 hours ago, Key Elements said:

There are always deep meanings behind certain movies, music, art, and stories. If a person lacks the experience in life, the story doesn't mean much. It may even look ridiculous and shallow. For instance, how often does the average Joe think of the book, Anne Frank, The Diary of a Young Girl? After reading it in middle school, probably never. However, a person who has experienced war as a child and who was in the same situation as Anne Frank, would totally relate to Anne Frank's story. She would never forget the people who were hiding her.

identity/attachments are what creates the meanings taken from these experiences. 

7 hours ago, Key Elements said:

In other words, the video I posted was about a movie. It was a lot more than just about domestic violence. You also have to research and understand the consequences of one's actions (hitting someone) if you behave like that nowadays under certain circumstances. The movie took place in a different time, place, and culture.

There are many who were raised to 'act out' for attention, and responsibility was never in their hands (from their pov) so naturally they grow up to learn to act very selfishly while underneath, harboring a lot of anger from this core/primary belief

[Key Elements]

@DrewNows None of the info I presented were about attachments--just the opposite. The character in the story (movie) was not attached to any of her behaviors, not even when she defended her friend, which of course impressed me that there is such a person. But, that's just a movie. When I reflect back into my life, I suspect I've met such ppl. I feel it's such a honor and privilege just to see someone like that. (❤️)