Does Leo experience any suffering?

[Truth Addict]

There are basically two types of suffering. There is the suffering that is direct (non-mediated), and there is the indirect suffering which is mediated by attachment and resistance.

While you have a little room for choice with the second type, the first type is completely out of your control.

[Socrates]

@Leo Gura Now you are getting sloppy, if you are not 24/7 in a nondual state this is just fantasy and you are deluding yourself instead of resolving the issue step by step and deconstructing your actual emotions and suffering.

If you didnt live in duality you wouldn't suffer, you would be enlightened on a sober state.

Realize that if you experience suffering right now, that is all there is, and all your nondual memories fly out the window. That is also a trap of psychedelics since you don't grow gradually but that is another can of worms. 

If you actually observe your present experience there actually only 2 kinds of suffering, mental and physical.

I have not transcended physical suffering yet as Ralston has done (which he says you create that too) but let's focus on the mental one.

Since it is your own construction for your own survival you need to slowly deconstruct it and get an actual insight on suffering itself as the thing I am describing here. So why do we create suffering?

At the end of the day, mental suffering is an attachment to thoughts and feelings without realizing the mechanism behind the whole process. After putting some awareness on this mechanism we realize that it goes like this: event -> negative thought -> suffering. This whole process happens automatically and most people think suffering is normal but it is not, it happens unconsciously since there is no space in between these 3 events.

Confusing insight with just duality and smearing it like that is the ultimate delusion.

[tsuki]

@Socrates @Truth Addict Do you make a distinction between pain as a sensation and suffering?

[Socrates]

@tsuki This is actually a tricky question because many times when you experience physical pain it is a result of mental suffering you yourself create by misinterpreting an event as negative and then producing physical pain to yourself.

And then you ask yourself why does my chest feel like that? And you've missed the fact that you JUST created that sensation unconsciously.

This mistakenly is classified as physical pain although it is not actual physical pain like someone cutting your finger of which doesn't require any mental gymnastics to produce.

At the deepest levels of consciousness, all that used to be pain becomes just a sensation be it mental or physical. It just occurs a recontextualization of the feeling. This is the way I assume even Ralston can have teeth surgery without any amount of pain. 

[Truth Addict]

@tsuki

Suffering is a more general word to me than just pain. Physical pain can be one example of suffering. Suffering doesn't necessarily have to be physical, it can be mental, but that does not exclude the possibility of mental pain which might be a non-mediated type of suffering, a suffering that cannot be avoided and have to be accepted if you don't want to turn it into hell.

Edited September 10, 2019 by Truth Addict

[tsuki]

@Socrates @Truth Addict What if suffering is simply contraction leading to divergence from the present moment?

It can be caused by pain, but it can also be caused by pleasure.

[Truth Addict]

2 minutes ago, tsuki said:

@Socrates @Truth Addict What if suffering is simply contraction leading to divergence from the present moment?

It can be caused by pain, but it can also be caused by pleasure.

I don't care.

[Inliytened1]

Haha paradoxically the entire definition of suffering is relative.  Suffering and non-suffering are dualities.  That's why pure Being is nirvana.