Has anyone gotten enlightened through psychedelics?

[IndigoGeminiWolf]

Psychedelics no doubt increase the intensity of Light that flows through you.

But do they also make it harder to integrate the changes?

They might bust through blockages, but is it better to work at a slower pace that's more natural?

I have done DMT before, but I don't plan to anymore.

I work slowly through blockages, and then have pure love/light fill up what's left.

So has anyone really gotten enlightened through psychedelics?

Do they make it harder to integrate the changes?

I heard there are no shortcuts to enlightenment.

I would think they would push the level of enlightenment further away, because it's not about how intense the experience is.

[pluto]

Psychedelics can show you truth and the pathways or the doors to enlightenment/freedom but in most cases people are not ready to make such drastic changes to their lives to actually see permanent results.  True enlightenment can only occur through internal/endogenous means in which happens when one fully embodies and lives the new realized state and changes according to the truth that he/she realized during the higher consciousness experiences.

If psychedelics could make you permanently enlightened, all these masters wouldn't spend their whole lives in spiritual practice. I suggest finding yourself first, knowing who and what you are at a fundamental/universal level, then using psychedelics from time to time to finish up the few layers you may have left or to give you a good reminder and nudge you back on the path if you feel like you have fallen off.

By always relying on it to remind you becomes a crutch in itself, eventually you shouldn't need it at all. Sometimes it takes years to actually integrate properly because the experience could be something far beyond your current level of consciousness/awareness.

Once you become a enlightened, you won't need them anymore but trying to become a enlightened through excessive psychedelic use will only delude you further. I'd say no more than 4 times a year equally spread apart but if a few years pass and your still doing the same 4 times a year or any (routine) then you are obviously not gaining anything or learning new and not truly embodying and integrating.

Don't get me wrong, the psychedelic could be a very powerful and life changing experience that ultimately gives you that nudge you need but in actuality in the end you realize you did it yourself, the psychedelic was just an excuse, a permission slip, your ego needed to be shown to believe its worthy of enlightenment but going about it how many people today are going about it is not wise at all.

People are who spiritually tuned are already aware of this and know this to be true with or without substance.

It all comes down to resistance to truth,/resistance to the natural self.

Hope this helps

 

 

Edited September 9, 2019 by pluto

[tsuki]

I haven't gone too deep with psychedelics yet, but I'm going to share my two cents for whatever the cents are worth.

Enlightenment is not something that can be thought of in isolation, like in a question "can someone be permanently enlightened through psychedelics?". Enlightenment happens as an experience, but it fades away very quickly if it is not backed up by, let's say, a lifestyle, embodiment.

Psychedelics can certainly produce 'awakenings' or 'enlightenment experiences' and very deep ones at that. Perhaps, they can even show you things beyond the human capacity to embody. This can be very useful if someone wants to construct a mental scaffolding for the path that lies ahead, but that does not make the path any easier to follow. It can also be useful if mental scaffolding needs to be torn down in order to integrate experiences one previously had. It can also 'flesh out' theoretical knowledge from scriptures with undeniable experience and give it a new dimension of certainty.

I do not believe that it is possible to 'become enlightened' through any practice in particular, or at least it is not how it happened in my case. Psychedelics are very powerful, but power is merely a lever that can amplify your capability to make your intent actual, regardless of whether it is wise or not.

Edited September 9, 2019 by tsuki

[Hsinav]

Psychedelics are powerful tools and my guess is that they have awoken far more people than any other tool used for attaining enlightenment.

[Hsinav]

3 hours ago, pluto said:

If psychedelics could make you permanently enlightened, all these masters wouldn't spend their whole lives in spiritual practice.

If they used psychedelics properly they most likely wouldn't need to spend a lifetime in spiritual practice. 

How many gurus have in depth explored the effects of psychedelics?

Many of them comes from traditions where these substances were not used at all and they have no idea what they can do.

A lot of them are comparing alcohol with psychedelics with the logic - it´s a substance, not knowing that their lifelong meditation habit also is a substance.

 

[Jkris]

@tsuki Enlightenment happens as an experience and then it fades away if not backed up by lifestyle and embodiment ???

Can you please explain what it means fading away and embodiment ?

Once realized how it can fade away ?

How many times you have entered Nirvikalpa samadhi ? And how long each samadhi lasted ?

 

[Jkris]

@Hsinav Are you enlightened fully using physchadelics ? Which physchadelic you used ?

With out physchadelic can you enter Nirvikalpa samadhi ?

Edited September 9, 2019 by Jkris

[tsuki]

56 minutes ago, Jkris said:

Can you please explain what it means fading away and embodiment ?

By fading away, I mean - getting lost in the minutia of everyday life.
By embodiment, I mean - getting your life in order, your priorities straight, so that it helps you support your insight.

56 minutes ago, Jkris said:

Once realized how it can fade away ?

The mind is a crutch. If you can't walk straight, you need one to function.

56 minutes ago, Jkris said:

How many times you have entered Nirvikalpa samadhi ? And how long each samadhi lasted ?

I'm not too familiar with yogic classifications and I never sought recognition from any master with a lineage, so my self-assessment is of little value. If you post any resources here about this state of consciousness, I will read it and reply.

It would also help if you clarified what you mean by 'enlightenment'.

Edited September 9, 2019 by tsuki

[pluto]

@Hsinav You misunderstand the depth of the word "Master". This isn't your average monk or yogi who meditates following traditions and spiritual practices. He finds and embodies his own perfection without any outside influence. I suggest reading the Emerald Tablets of Thoth.

And for the record, there are many sages out there who know how to use psychedelics far better than most of us do because they are usually far more in tune with nature and the universe at large but are usually already in a higher consciousness state that anything more than a few experiences just out of sheer curiosity is quite pointless, if anything it would distort and delude them further.

Once you get the message, hang up the phone. The rest is ego-play.

 

Edited September 9, 2019 by pluto

[Hsinav]

47 minutes ago, Jkris said:

Are you enlightened fully using physchadelics ?

A better question would be: can psychedelics reveal the Truth for you, and yes they can.

50 minutes ago, Jkris said:

Which physchadelic you used ?

IME, 5 meo is the most helpful one.

52 minutes ago, Jkris said:

With out physchadelic can you enter Nirvikalpa samadhi ?

I,m not familiar with that term, but yes any state is possible without psychedelics, as Leo often says it would probably take some decades of hardcore spiritual practice though for most people. Psychedelics speeds up the process.

[Hsinav]

9 minutes ago, pluto said:

@Hsinav You misunderstand the depth of the word "Master". This isn't your average monk or yogi who meditates following traditions and spiritual practices. He finds and embodies his own perfection without any outside influence. I suggest reading the Emerald Tablets of Thoth.

 

Everything is outside influences.

I´ll check it out.

[Aaron p]

@IndigoGeminiWolf for me psychedelic are the minds worst enemy. The mind loves pretending to be enlightened and pretending to meditate. Lots of the time I catch myself thinking about meditating as opposed to actually meditating. 

Psychedelics feel uncontrollable and strangely pointless however, what's actually happening is, it's breaking through the conceived mental and psychological notions of what enlightenment actually is. For me it feels like I'm further away from enlightenment after a good hard trip, not closer. However what really happened was, my conceptual ideas of enlightenment we're broken through. So it's all good. 

For me, LSD especially is extra confusing and baffling...it's brilliant, confuses the fuck out of me and makes way for authentic experiences of enlightenment instead of silly ideas and thoughts

[Aaron p]

6 hours ago, IndigoGeminiWolf said:

I heard there are no shortcuts to enlightenment

@IndigoGeminiWolf aw nah bro, there are definitely shortcuts to enlightenment. Absolutely lol. It just depends on how you want to suffer, suffer lots and quickly or suffer little and longer. You snort a couple of lines of 5meodmt every week for 5 months solid and you'll make some serious progress. 

There are always shortcuts. I mean, what's wrong with shortcuts. A higher consciousness person usually always takes advantage of them from what I've seen. 

[Enlightenment]

7 hours ago, IndigoGeminiWolf said:

So has anyone really gotten enlightened through psychedelics?

Martin Ball has gotten some persistent change through the use of 5-MeO. Other than that probably no one.

[Jkris]

@Hsinav @tsuki

I live in a place where I don't have access to 5 meo (Bufo).

I have to travel to Mexico to get that.May be I can stay there for a week or two.

And take a few trips in that period. (Three or 4).Dosage - 30 to 40 mg.

Now that will cost approximately 10000 USD including flight charges accomodation food transport and the ceremony expenses and other expenses I guess.(for a trip of 4)

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Now what is enlightenment as per my understanding -

Complete destruction of ignorance of I am the body,mind and complete permanent  cessation of the sense of me or sense of i and not just cessation during the trip and returning of the sense of me once trip is over.

What is Nirvikalpa Samadhi - The awareness is turned inside to its source The SELF.

The sense of I gone there is no awareness of body,world,No thoughts - completely no thoughts.

Awareness of awareness.

It is not a state - It is pure awareness.

The realisation enlightenment I am not the body mind and I am not the perceiver perceiving perceived 

Is supposed to be realized when mind returns after Nirvikalpa samadhi.

No contemplation is possible in Nirvikalpa samadhi as there is no thinking mind thoughts.

Once realized is realized.No returning back of I sense.No identification again with body mind.

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Will taking 5meo help me in that ? Just three 4 trips in a period of two week stay.

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And experience of 5meo by enlightened people like Pluto,enlightenment etc say 5meo can almost take to advanced concentration meditative levels but not enlightenment.It cannot make one permanently enlightened.Embodied.

But Leo says 5meo is No duality - may be he enters non duality not just because of 5meo alone but due to his solid meditative background as well plus 5meo.

Even Leo has taken several 5meo trips I guess.

P Aaron says 5meo trips every week for 5 months 5 meo can bring some progress.

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[tsuki]

1 minute ago, Jkris said:

Now what is enlightenment as per my understanding -

Complete destruction of ignorance of I am the body,mind and complete permanent  cessation of the sense of me or sense of i and not just cessation during the trip and returning of the sense of me once trip is over.

Alrighty. That's a modest goal, very doable. Maybe even through psychedelics, but I wouldn't know.

4 minutes ago, Jkris said:

What is Nirvikalpa Samadhi - The awareness is turned inside to its source The SELF.

The sense of I gone there is no awareness of body,world,No thoughts - completely no thoughts.

Awareness of awareness.

It is not a state - It is pure awareness.

I do have thoughts during the day, but I am constantly aware of the source, the silence in between words. "I" do not think, thoughts simply pass by, narrating things usefully. I can still the thinking mind on a whim and keep it that way for long periods of time, out of formal meditation sits. I'm in the process of developing a habit of relaxing the mind down to silence and having it focused on the breath constantly.

"Thoughts" are a deep term that may mean various things. They can mean the mind's ability to imagine sounds, or having useful visual hallucinations (imagination). I am mostly resting in the present moment and subconscious fears tend to throw me off for short periods of time.

19 minutes ago, Jkris said:

The realisation enlightenment I am not the body mind and I am not the perceiver perceiving perceived 

Is supposed to be realized when mind returns after Nirvikalpa samadhi.

No contemplation is possible in Nirvikalpa samadhi as there is no thinking mind thoughts.

Thoughts are not needed for contemplation. Contemplation is a very deep term.

21 minutes ago, Jkris said:

Once realized is realized.No returning back of I sense.No identification again with body mind.

I agree. Still, there are various degrees of silence.
Is the uncontrolled trembling of your foot in response to your angry spouse considered noise? Subconscious mind runs deep.

23 minutes ago, Jkris said:

Will taking 5meo help me in that ? Just three 4 trips in a period of two week stay.

I wouldn't know, sorry.

[pluto]

On 9/9/2019 at 9:20 PM, Aaron p said:

@IndigoGeminiWolf aw nah bro, there are definitely shortcuts to enlightenment. Absolutely lol. It just depends on how you want to suffer, suffer lots and quickly or suffer little and longer. You snort a couple of lines of 5meodmt every week for 5 months solid and you'll make some serious progress. 

There are always shortcuts. I mean, what's wrong with shortcuts. A higher consciousness person usually always takes advantage of them from what I've seen. 

Let me explain why there are no shortcuts. Like you said, you suffer A LOT in a short amount of "time" which is illusory anyway but lets just use that to make some sense out of the whole situation. Or you suffer a little but a long amount of time. Neither is quicker from a higher dimensional standpoint, you just chose more intensity which from a higher view, is the same intensity compacted thus not really a shortcut and could lead to long term physical/psychological damage.

You won't get there faster, you will get there when you truly decide to and fully realize and fully understand you are worthy and when that happens you will realize that no matter what you chose or did or path you took, it was predetermined to happen then and there in that exact way anyway. You already made the decision long ago. You don't have to choose the path of rapid and extreme suffering because it can damage the psyche.

Its simply an option that works and most people need but not entirely necessary.

This is why the most wisest way to go about it is to simply let go and just be. By just being, you are already there.

Lao Tzu and Rumi say it best.

 

Edited September 11, 2019 by pluto