A month later after 5meo symptoms update

[Leo Gura]

@khalifa I'm curious, what do you attribute this to? In your own estimation, what is causing this?

Are you telling yourself that this is caused by 5-MeO-DMT?

[Matt8800]

11 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

@khalifa I'm curious, what you do attribute this to? In your own estimation, what is causing this?

Are you telling yourself that this is caused by 5-MeO-DMT?

@Leo Gura Nobody asked me but my opinion is that it triggered a kundalini awakening before he was ready. Ive heard of other people claiming that happened to them from psychedelics, meditation, etc. They see the Truth and it cant be unseen. Many people suffer with it for years due to fear of facing the implications of the ego not mattering. 

Once they can let the ego die, its one of the best things that could happen to them. Before they let the ego die, it is one of the worse.

Mine wasnt too severe...probably because I was ready. Im also pretty good at processing and ignoring fear. For fearful people though, its going to be tough.

Edited October 1, 2019 by Matt8800

[peanutspathtotruth]

11 hours ago, Matt8800 said:

Mine wasnt too severe...probably because I was ready. Im also pretty good at processing and ignoring fear. For fearful people though, its going to be tough.

I'm not sure ignoring fear is a smart way to deal with it

[Smurfinstein]

I'm a relative newbie to all of this, but what's amazing to me is, given the exact same experiences, I bet 80% of the people on this forum would say "this is cool as f*, this is exactly what I wanted!!"

Definitely getting undertones of "be careful what you wish for, what's "seen" can't be unseen." And of ego applying fear to what was precisely the intended lesson. Great learning for me--  the lesson of "this really is all just temporary" really aught be explored, absorbed and made friends with before hurtled into that experience "for real." 

[pluto]

Resistance to Truth. Like Matt said, once seen, cannot be unseen. You either live by the truth you know to be true or you suffer endlessly.

 

 

[Matt8800]

3 hours ago, peanutspathtotruth said:

I'm not sure ignoring fear is a smart way to deal with it

@peanutspathtotruth Courage is not the absence of fear; it is the ability to move forward anyway.

The universe rewards courage. There is no reward for the fearful.

[peanutspathtotruth]

10 minutes ago, Matt8800 said:

@peanutspathtotruth Courage is not the absence of fear; it is the ability to move forward anyway.

The universe rewards courage. There is no reward for the fearful.

Totally with you here, but what has that to do with "ignoring" fear? It's the opposite in my experience. To stand as your Self despite fear includes recognizing and acknowledging the fear fully. Ignoring it would be the same as resisting it. So I'm not sure you really meant ignorance the way I'm understanding it?  

[Matt8800]

1 hour ago, peanutspathtotruth said:

Totally with you here, but what has that to do with "ignoring" fear? It's the opposite in my experience. To stand as your Self despite fear includes recognizing and acknowledging the fear fully. Ignoring it would be the same as resisting it. So I'm not sure you really meant ignorance the way I'm understanding it?  

@peanutspathtotruth Fear is irrelevant to anything. 

[Calmness]

@Matt8800  How did you develop / train your courage? Or is a lot of courage just natural for you?

What would be your tip to develop more courage? Because I can often feel in my life that lack of courage holds me back a lot.

[Matt8800]

3 hours ago, Calmness said:

@Matt8800  How did you develop / train your courage? Or is a lot of courage just natural for you?

What would be your tip to develop more courage? Because I can often feel in my life that lack of courage holds me back a lot.

@Calmness I was fearful as a child but had a will of steel. I once told my dad when I was around 5 that I was going to be a millionaire when I grew up. He laughed at me. Many kids that age would be discouraged with that but I was fucking furious and determined then that I would prove him wrong and rub his face in it. I became a millionaire by the time I was 33. Of course I reminded him about it and thanked him for the perfect motivation

I think courage starts with a strong will. When you experience what a strong will does in your life, fear really is no longer an issue. By the time I was in my 20s, fear was becoming non-existent in my life (im 49 now). I would suggest contemplating what a strong will of steel would look like in your life, how it differs now and what are some things that you could start changing to build a will of steel over time. 

Do things that would require courage just so you can prove to yourself you can conquer your fears. I once decided that I would go bungee jumping and that I would not flinch or hesitate before I jumped simply to prove what I can do to myself. You dont have to do that but take steps without taking unnecessary risks.

There is also a post I put on here called something like "Building strength - occult style" that I would highly recommend. There are occult practices that you can do that will literally change your energy into something new according to your will. I would keep doing that practice until you see big changes. 

I believe that some people have lots of strength but need more love energy. Others have lots of love but are weak. I believe it is our responsibility in this incarnation to balance these energies. 

Also, there is a Buddhist meditation where you contemplate your own future rotting corpse to overcome your fear of death and accept impermanence. If you conquer a fear of death, what else is there to fear?

Edited October 3, 2019 by Matt8800

[khalifa]

@Leo Gura  I'm sorry for the late reply, It didn't notify me, I wanted to wait another month before I check up the thread just checked it now since I wanted to give an update Instead of waiting another month since I tend to forget what i'm experiencing night to night.

 

Honestly leo, I don't know what's going on I still have a lot of difficulty sleeping. I trip, My heart races, It feels very 5meo like similar sensations but the % is much lower, Like 1%?-10%? Random every night, but even this small % is quite intense. My heart races, My mind can't relax. I see strange visuals of energy. The green/red energy grows when i close my eyes. And the atmosphere of it feels very dark, darker than usual. I feel like I just can't relax. I feel like i'm fucked. Like death is coming reality is so unstable, I'm not in control and never will be. Which i'm on denial on hence i can't let go, even though i've tried multiple times every night it just made me insane. I feel like i've lost a big chunk of well being from it.

I still have all these strange vibrations all around my body that come and go, whenever i focus inside or even meditate, All i feel is uneasiness and fear of life. Far away from well being.

I feel like my soul has been raped, it's been like this for awhile, it's just i don't feel safe with the world, example: I showered then i tried to relax on bed

and i keep sensing uncomfortable unrelaxed state of mind and body, I'm just not well i can't relax, i couldn't relax or rather i cant relax even if i wanted to, there is no well being or peace taste for awhile now. I just feel so restless. Maybe it's just a phase.

And honestly I don't know what the heck was going on when i took the 5meo, it just felt like i was dying and i feared death. I don't feel any spiritual growth from it (even though i felt like i've been there many times and it was so familiar in that altered state of consciousness) . and the aftermath was just PTSD trama from that. I just try to ground myself saying it was a chemical that was messing around with my brain/nervous system and this forum just has a strange cult following that i fell under a trap from just to keep me sane. I don't know how accurate i am, I'm just trying to find any excuse to make myself feel better but nothing is working out for me so far. I just feel like shit most of the time if i concentrate on it so i distract myself from it and i keep trying to run away and run away, I find any reason to run away, even if it's an argument with someone,  by walking or playing video games or even watching stuff or even going to university lately which even gets tiring eventually i can't run away forever i still have to face it almost every night it's been a roller coaster. IIt feels so good to be alive by distracting myself with anything even arguing , or to even feel anger, joy anything I just want to feel alive instead of feeling close to death which stems my fear more.

I had days where it was a few days in a row i managed to sleep quick no problems, and then i have night 4x in a row where i trip up to 9 times (this was recent last week). And last night was just fucked up, heart was racing so hard i had to leave my room to keep my sanity. slept outside infront of my homes garden just to keep my sanity and i still felt like shit there with my heart racing for 30minutes+.

Either way i still use this mantra, it shall pass, it shall pass. But no, it just doesn't feel like it when i'm in that experience in that moment it feels so real and shitty. Maybe i'm just dumb? Even though i see my knowledge graph isn't so bad i'm aware of nothing and infinity but my body just doesn't feel at ease with it. It's like it has an intelligence of it's own knowing it's an illusion and doesn't like it? Who knows.

 

I think I just hate the instability of how the world can get. I'm starting to appreciate and love mundane life more, I miss it, but i can't experience it in a relaxed state as i used to due to my current fear and probably deluded beliefs. I understand concept yet i feel differently and can't cope with it to feel any different. I thought it just needs more time since it's a phase. I'm trying to take it a day at a time just like everyone else. I'm probably just attached to my ego way too much. As i dislike the suffering caused to it. It's pretty normal biologically, I don't understand the ego death part of this, In my experience i feel like the ego should be cherished since it's time is so temporary (yet it concept it could be infinite since it could be birthed over and over again)

Why bother with rushing on death with psychedelics, I'll die eventually and the after math would be fine, I'm already aware in theory you could say that i'm nothing and infinite just as the oneness is. And all that's left is cherry picking in my current experience. So i can just do that now, I can just cherry pick and live it out till i die. Before enlightenment chop wood. carry water. After enlightenment chop wood, carry water. Sure the sense of well being should be better knowing i shouldn't take this illusionary dream world seriously, But there isn't anything wrong with half assing it and not taking it too seriously from time to time right now as i'm aware in theory. But that's just my way of doing it. I resonate with half assing through it without actually harming my nervous system. I feel like, i've been cruel to myself damaging myself over some insight that wasn't worth it. If the dream lets me access it easily then it should be within my parameters. Right now i don't feel like i resonate with 5meo as other people do. I do respect everyone though when it comes to them experiencing the oneness is does sound cool and everything but that wasn't in my experience and i'm not going to try hard to make it my own.

 

As for my personality I think what caused all this fear ramp up was because of my background knowledge. I've been living as a god from abraham hicks teachings for a while, always relaxed not taking life seriously. And that 5meo just hit me up and made me the most vulnerable state i've ever been in.

I literally would not bother going to uni if i didn't feel like it, even if i failed an exam I wouldn't care much, I was so hardcore non-physicalist, I'd take ownership practising all sorts of weird magicka stuff, like If it doesn't happen my way i've probably done that to myself and Something better is coming i've written up a better story for myself etc.

I even would walk down a street not caring about the cars passing by, that's how confident i was thinking it's a dream and it always works my way.

5meo just raped me out of that delusion. That i have no control in this dream. Or maybe it was my dreamy state and everything was going fine, My luck has been on top notch for awhile. unless if i was deluded. Like i've had everything i wanted with no lack in anything. Or rather i can not ever have any lack it's just a physical impossibility.

I stopped playing with the dreamy illusionary state rules after my 5meo experience, and just accepted in this realm it's physical and stable since i dislike instability hence why I'm here to experience stability over dreamy state. yet i'm finding it hard to cope since my nervous system feels like a fucked brain lately.

 

Edit: I forgot to mention i did do Ibogaine 2weeks 5 days ago before the 5meo, The ibogaine practitioner told me not to do any psychedelics for a while and let my brain rest. I ignored her. So this could possibly be due to the ibogaine being nuclear on my nervous system and the 5meo ramping it up even more.

 

 

Edited October 20, 2019 by khalifa

[cetus]

@khalifa I was reading your reply here then noticed Leo has a new vid. that may interest you. 

 

[cetus]

@khalifa  Well there's synchronicity for ya. 

[Aeris]

1 hour ago, khalifa said:

@Leo Gura  I'm sorry for the late reply, It didn't notify me, I wanted to wait another month before I check up the thread just checked it now since I wanted to give an update Instead of waiting another month since I tend to forget what i'm experiencing night to night.

 

Honestly leo, I don't know what's going on I still have a lot of difficulty sleeping. I trip, My heart races, It feels very 5meo like similar sensations but the % is much lower, Like 1%?-10%? Random every night, but even this small % is quite intense. My heart races, My mind can't relax. I see strange visuals of energy. The green/red energy grows when i close my eyes. And the atmosphere of it feels very dark, darker than usual. I feel like I just can't relax. I feel like i'm fucked. Like death is coming reality is so unstable, I'm not in control and never will be. Which i'm on denial on hence i can't let go, even though i've tried multiple times every night it just made me insane. I feel like i've lost a big chunk of well being from it.

I still have all these strange vibrations all around my body that come and go, whenever i focus inside or even meditate, All i feel is uneasiness and fear of life. Far away from well being.

I feel like my soul has been raped, it's been like this for awhile, it's just i don't feel safe with the world, example: I showered then i tried to relax on bed

and i keep sensing uncomfortable unrelaxed state of mind and body, I'm just not well i can't relax, i couldn't relax or rather i cant relax even if i wanted to, there is no well being or peace taste for awhile now. I just feel so restless. Maybe it's just a phase.

And honestly I don't know what the heck was going on when i took the 5meo, it just felt like i was dying and i feared death. I don't feel any spiritual growth from it (even though i felt like i've been there many times and it was so familiar in that altered state of consciousness) . and the aftermath was just PTSD trama from that. I just try to ground myself saying it was a chemical that was messing around with my brain/nervous system and this forum just has a strange cult following that i fell under a trap from just to keep me sane. I don't know how accurate i am, I'm just trying to find any excuse to make myself feel better but nothing is working out for me so far. I just feel like shit most of the time if i concentrate on it so i distract myself from it and i keep trying to run away and run away, I find any reason to run away, even if it's an argument with someone,  by walking or playing video games or even watching stuff or even going to university lately which even gets tiring eventually i can't run away forever i still have to face it almost every night it's been a roller coaster. IIt feels so good to be alive by distracting myself with anything even arguing , or to even feel anger, joy anything I just want to feel alive instead of feeling close to death which stems my fear more.

I had days where it was a few days in a row i managed to sleep quick no problems, and then i have night 4x in a row where i trip up to 9 times (this was recent last week). And last night was just fucked up, heart was racing so hard i had to leave my room to keep my sanity. slept outside infront of my homes garden just to keep my sanity and i still felt like shit there with my heart racing for 30minutes+.

Either way i still use this mantra, it shall pass, it shall pass. But no, it just doesn't feel like it when i'm in that experience in that moment it feels so real and shitty. Maybe i'm just dumb? Even though i see my knowledge graph isn't so bad i'm aware of nothing and infinity but my body just doesn't feel at ease with it. It's like it has an intelligence of it's own knowing it's an illusion and doesn't like it? Who knows.

 

I think I just hate the instability of how the world can get. I'm starting to appreciate and love mundane life more, I miss it, but i can't experience it in a relaxed state as i used to due to my current fear and probably deluded beliefs. I understand concept yet i feel differently and can't cope with it to feel any different. I thought it just needs more time since it's a phase. I'm trying to take it a day at a time just like everyone else. I'm probably just attached to my ego way too much. As i dislike the suffering caused to it. It's pretty normal biologically, I don't understand the ego death part of this, In my experience i feel like the ego should be cherished since it's time is so temporary (yet it concept it could be infinite since it could be birthed over and over again)

Why bother with rushing on death with psychedelics, I'll die eventually and the after math would be fine, I'm already aware in theory you could say that i'm nothing and infinite just as the oneness is. And all that's left is cherry picking in my current experience. So i can just do that now, I can just cherry pick and live it out till i die. Before enlightenment chop wood. carry water. After enlightenment chop wood, carry water. Sure the sense of well being should be better knowing i shouldn't take this illusionary dream world seriously, But there isn't anything wrong with half assing it and not taking it too seriously from time to time right now as i'm aware in theory. But that's just my way of doing it. I resonate with half assing through it without actually harming my nervous system. I feel like, i've been cruel to myself damaging myself over some insight that wasn't worth it. If the dream lets me access it easily then it should be within my parameters. Right now i don't feel like i resonate with 5meo as other people do. I do respect everyone though when it comes to them experiencing the oneness is does sound cool and everything but that wasn't in my experience and i'm not going to try hard to make it my own.

 

As for my personality I think what caused all this fear ramp up was because of my background knowledge. I've been living as a god from abraham hicks teachings for a while, always relaxed not taking life seriously. And that 5meo just hit me up and made me the most vulnerable state i've ever been in.

I literally would not bother going to uni if i didn't feel like it, even if i failed an exam I wouldn't care much, I was so hardcore non-physicalist, I'd take ownership practising all sorts of weird magicka stuff, like If it doesn't happen my way i've probably done that to myself and Something better is coming i've written up a better story for myself etc.

I even would walk down a street not caring about the cars passing by, that's how confident i was thinking it's a dream and it always works my way.

5meo just raped me out of that delusion. That i have no control in this dream. Or maybe it was my dreamy state and everything was going fine, My luck has been on top notch for awhile. unless if i was deluded. Like i've had everything i wanted with no lack in anything. Or rather i can not ever have any lack it's just a physical impossibility.

I stopped playing with the dreamy illusionary state rules after my 5meo experience, and just accepted in this realm it's physical and stable since i dislike instability hence why I'm here to experience stability over dreamy state. yet i'm finding it hard to cope since my nervous system feels like a fucked brain lately.

 

Edit: I forgot to mention i did do Ibogaine 2weeks 5 days ago before the 5meo, The ibogaine practitioner told me not to do any psychedelics for a while and let my brain rest. I ignored her. So this could possibly be due to the ibogaine being nuclear on my nervous system and the 5meo ramping it up even more.

 

 

 

I m not you, but if I were you I would try this :

- Talk to people "online" or in real life, trivial things ( grounding )

- Playing stimulating video game the day. ( rpg is better if you can ) ( something that takes your mind off yourself )

I mean, a bit of inconsciousness stuff could help rebalance.

exhaust yourself the day, and at night, use some plants pills ( in very few quantity ) do a hot shower before bed, try to find some good asmr ( one that relax you , try the guy happyasmr, I find him rythmic and smoothing )

Sorry if I cannot help, I think if it is PTSD, try really to relax, but not to think of it, I mean, get out of the self actualizing work and be a "normal human" just for the time you feel better, don't try to expand the work or to get "more knowledge".

Try to have no food inside your belly before bed, don't do sport before bed, and avoid stimulant ( sugar, coffee, thea, vitamin pills ) ( or maybe coffee could create a grounding reaction, will depend, could be in low dose - useful. )

And another exercice, don't try to rationalize what happen'd or to overthink what you're and why it is this way, all the blabla, just try to be "stupid" for a while, things should be fine if you don't push yourself over the edge. You already jumped on a big peak, scale down !

I think 5MEO is probably heavy without a real grounded work ( aside all psychedelics, data, life grounding ) - others facets of life, ( but I just presume ).

 

Edited October 20, 2019 by Aeris

[fridjonk]

@khalifa I'd try a silent darkness mushroom trip, it might give you some answers. They can really heal you if you give yourself to them. 

[khalifa]

@cetus56 thanks just watched it, i resonate with it, i've been feeling various insights before their uploaded by leo's, it's strange how this was once again one of them, although the detail and common sense displayed is really well done, it's a good share, however their's various videos where i just don't feel like watching or i can tell i may not resonate with it and i accept that to be so, i let it all unfold naturally, yet i still hold a lot of fear at night  ;x

 

I'm honored, thanks leo for taking the time to add more detail into the awareness about the dangers of it

 

@fridjonk I have read a trip about some silent mushroom trip, which keeps me uneasy about tripping in the dark, even the ibogaine done at the dark wasn't pleasant for me, the visions were too annoying and unstable, i'm familiar with tripping in the dark with my mind it just isn't pleasant yet i don't have enough trips to justify that, but i'll stay clean for now since i feel like there is no reason to rush on psychs, infact i just threw away 45g of mushrooms just a month or 2 ago i can't remember

 

Quote: anonymous pm I had:

"I underwent an experience very similar to the one you're describing in that post. I was about 19 or 20 and I ate 8 grams of dried mushrooms and sat in a dark, empty, silent room for 12 hours. Went into quite the head-hole, became convinced in the objective truth of solipsism and came to believe that everything in the world was mere puppetry I'd created for myself, that all love and relationships were fake, that everything was fake, and that life was fundamentally pure suffering.

You might note the truths hidden in and woven through the lies there. It was quite a trap and thoroughly fucked me up. I didn't sleep for about 96 hours, couldn't function, could barely eat - my human experience felt so alien and wrong and so jarringly unfamiliar and uncomfortable to me. Everything about "having a body" was incredibly unsettling and I couldn't rest or shake it. It took me 9 months before I was able to even smoke weed or have a beer without immediately, suddenly tripping balls again, and even now, years and years later, I can only consume a fraction of any hallucinogen that I used to (marijuana included) before getting extremely powerful effects. It's very likely permanently impacted my life.

That said - that discomfort, inability to sleep, etc - did, indeed, go away. You have introduced some very powerful, new, unsettling patterns into your perceptual space - but it's extremely unlikely that they're so powerful as to outweigh the combined strength of all of the patterns you've built up in your life to this point, and perhaps lifetimes before.

In other words, if you focus on going about daily life as best you can and re-immersing in the mundane, "physical" human experience, all of those patterns will soon re-emerge and these new, uncomfortable ones will submit.

I can't tell you how long it will be, and I don't have any particular recipe for resolving it, but I feel confident in telling you that this is impermanent.

If it gets to the point that you find yourself acting drastically irrationally, violently, or self-destructively, it's worth pursuing medical help. Don't let yourself get to the point where you're going to commit suicide without giving good ol' Western medicine a chance to have a crack at ya. But I think it's a very, very low chance this will be necessary. I think all you're likely to need is a little more time.

But there will be echoes of this that will last quite a while, more likely than not. If your experience proves to be as akin to mine as it seems, some of them will bring about positive insights and wisdom, and some of them will be inconvenient or painful. But you'll be fine.

Trust yourself. You made all of this. You didn't sabotage yourself.

Give it time."

 

 

 

Edited October 21, 2019 by khalifa
edit highlight

[fridjonk]

@khalifa Have you given MDMA any thought ?

[khalifa]

@fridjonk

no i really want to stay clean and let my body stabilize overtime, the 5meo seems to reactivate by itself randomly at night, or when i meditate, not sure why my neurons are firing randomly like that, the mdma would make my HPPD/PTSD like symptoms worse on me

 

Edited October 21, 2019 by khalifa

[fridjonk]

@khalifa I'm sure it will get better over time, wishing you all the best.                                   

[Leo Gura]

@khalifa It seems to me that you went too deep too fast and your ego-mind was not prepared to handle the raw Truth which was being revealed to you in this process because you have a lot of basic growth to do first.

So don't take psychedelics any more and just focus on basic self-help.