Radhanath Swami's Criticism on Psychedelics to Attain Enlightment

[SQAAD]

Go to 27:43. Radhanath Swami is asked to give his opinion about Psychedelics.

He replied:

Quote

"From the perspective of self-realization & enlightment psychedelics could potentially at the most  kind of open one's Awareness that there's something beyond all this stuff that everybody is mixed up in this world but it really can't take you beyond that because our true Spiritual Nature is our Natural Self and it requires to be awakened through spiritual practice. The difficulty with psychedelics is it may open a little dort that there's something beyond but beyond that it could be a serious distraction. We become dependent on a substance rather than awakening our true self."

My opinion is that if Radhanath hasn't done psychedelics then his opinion on the subject isn't worth much . What do you guys think??

My observation is that almost all people act as they know things which they have 0 experience with. Including celibacy, psychedelics, etc. We're self-biased monkeys. We act as we know things which we don't really know.

 

 

Edited September 5, 2019 by SQAAD

[tsuki]

If you want to hear something, you can turn the volume up, or listen more attentively.

[Setty]

Well you can't really blame him. He doesn't have the experience so how could he recommend it? But problem with teachers is that they just have to have an opinion they can't say I don't know. As for the distraction part I think any spiritual practise can be a distraction and again the teacher thinks his way is the better one. Psychedelics can at least help you see through this kind of bullshit.

[Rilles]

another indian guru bashing psychedelics? theres a pattern here

[FredFred]

Have one person ever been permanently awakened simply by psychedelic use?

[isabel]

eckhart tolle was repeatedly asked about psychedelics so he tried it in order to be able to answer the questions and you'll have to google around to find out exactly what he said but basically he said entering the now naturally was better and that he found psychedelics forceful or he might have even used the word violent idk.. who knows

[Matt8800]

4 hours ago, SQAAD said:

Go to 27:43. Radhanath Swami is asked to give his opinion about Psychedelics.

He replied:

My opinion is that if Radhanath hasn't done psychedelics then his opinion on the subject isn't worth much . What do you guys think??

My observation is that almost all people act as they know things which they have 0 experience with. Including celibacy, psychedelics, etc. We're self-biased monkeys. We act as we know things which we don't really know.

 

 

@SQAAD Its like a virgin giving sex advice. He should know better than to talk about stuff he has no experience with.

If all enlightened people completely escaped delusion and bias, than they would all agree with each other, on all subjects at all times. Therefore, this proves that enlightenment may dispel the identification with the ego does not completely dispel all delusion.

Edited September 5, 2019 by Matt8800

[Jkris]

@SQAAD ??? Lol.Our master in disguise @SQAADdoes it again.

Thank you for sharing such a wonderful video.???

[SQAAD]

@Jkris

15 hours ago, Jkris said:

@SQAAD ??? Lol.Our master in disguise @SQAADdoes it again.

Thank you for sharing such a wonderful video.???

Thank you sir!!

[Forestluv]

23 hours ago, FredFred said:

Have one person ever been permanently awakened simply by psychedelic use?

What would awakening simply by psychedelics even look like? Would we take a newborn baby and isolate him in a solitary room with no windows? Then throw in some psychedelics during his life and monitor him with a hidden camera? How would we even be able to determine "enlightenment"? And how could we determine that the person had never “meditated” or “self inquired”? 

Everything is inter-related. 

[FredFred]

Hey @Serotoninluv ! I've asked this question in a couple of places now but never got a clear answer. Let's say someone experiments heavily with powerful substances like 5-MeO : will permanent awakening still be possible for him?

Am I even asking the right questions?

[Matt8800]

41 minutes ago, Serotoninluv said:

What would awakening simply by psychedelics even look like? Would we take a newborn baby and isolate him in a solitary room with no windows? Then throw in some psychedelics during his life and monitor him with a hidden camera? How would we even be able to determine "enlightenment"? And how could we determine that the person had never “meditated” or “self inquired”? 

Everything is inter-related. 

@Serotoninluv For me, it was my first DMT experience 3.5 years ago. I had no understanding of Buddhism but that night I understood that all suffering is a self created illusion, love is the most important thing, beauty is everywhere but we just sometimes dont see it and I needed to start meditating daily. The next day I started meditating every day and have continued since. I was radically and permanently changed, as everyone that knows me will attest to.

I then found out that Buddhism had taught everything that I had awakened to. DMT introduced me to my spirit guide, which instilled the wisdom of the Buddha without the Buddha.

In all fairness, I had done a form of self inquiry for several years because I was obsessed with the nature of consciousness and what "I" was. No meditation though.

[Forestluv]

13 minutes ago, FredFred said:

Hey @Serotoninluv ! I've asked this question in a couple of places now but never got a clear answer. Let's say someone experiments heavily with powerful substances like 5-MeO : will permanent awakening still be possible for him?

I think this is a difficult question to answer based on the terms "awakening" and "permanent". I've experimented heavily with 5-Meo (daily breakthrough use for over three weeks). I would say there are aspects I think you would consider to be "awakening" and aspects you would consider "permanent" - from a subjective human perspective. Yet there would also be aspects I think you would not consider to be "awakening" and "permanent".

 At deeper levels, ideas/concepts/images of awakened vs. non-awakened and permanent vs. temporary break down. I suppose it can serve as a framework up to a point, yet it eventually breaks down.

[Forestluv]

36 minutes ago, Matt8800 said:

@Serotoninluv For me, it was my first DMT experience 3.5 years ago. I had no understanding of Buddhism but that night I understood that all suffering is a self created illusion, love is the most important thing, beauty is everywhere but we just sometimes dont see it and I needed to start meditating daily. The next day I started meditating every day and have continued since. I was radically and permanently changed, as everyone that knows me will attest to.

I then found out that Buddhism had taught everything that I had awakened to. DMT introduced me to my spirit guide, which instilled the wisdom of the Buddha without the Buddha.

In all fairness, I had done a form of self inquiry for several years because I was obsessed with the nature of consciousness and what "I" was. No meditation though.

Psychedelics are certainly powerful. In some ways, I learned more in six hours of my first trip than I had during the previous 20 years of meditation combined. I would say psychedelics have opened many doors. 

I hear a lot of people asking and debating whether "only" psychedelics can yield "enlightenment". To me this doesn't make sense because we cannot isolate a psychedelic experience from the inter-connectedness of Reality. If someone has an awakening related to psychedelics, how would we determine it was "only" psychedelics? What if the person had meditated a few times years ago and got a couple insights? Would that disqualify the awakening as "only" psychedelics? What if the person had reach quasi nondual states while running? What if the person had laid under the stars and pondered "who am I?"and received insights? Would that count as self-inquiry? What if the person had entered another realm during lucid dreaming? Or had a revelation watching a nondual video? To me, it's all inter-related and we can't remove and isolate an event from it's vast inter-connectedness. 

I don't think the question "Can only psychedelics yield awakening?" is a good question - because it is a binary "either / or" framework. I think a better question would be "Can psychedelics contribute to awakening?". I like this frame better as it allows for inter-connectedness. Then we could ask questions like "How significant is the contribution?", "What factors is this contribution related to and dependent upon?".

[FredFred]

10 minutes ago, Serotoninluv said:

I think this is a difficult question to answer based on the terms "awakening" and "permanent". I've experimented heavily with 5-Meo (daily breakthrough use for over three weeks). I would say there are aspects I think you would consider to be "awakening" and aspects you would consider "permanent" - from a subjective human perspective. Yet there would also be aspects I think you would not consider to be "awakening" and "permanent".

 At deeper levels, ideas/concepts/images of awakened vs. non-awakened and permanent vs. temporary break down. I suppose it can serve as a framework up to a point, yet it eventually breaks down.

Let me rephrase.

Let's say someone experiments heavily with powerful substances like 5-MeO : will this person ever be able to become a Buddha, a arhat, totally freed from fetters?

[Matt8800]

10 minutes ago, Serotoninluv said:

Psychedelics are certainly a powerful. In some ways, I learned more in six hours of my first trip than I had during the previous 20 years of meditation combined. I would say psychedelics have opened many doors. 

I hear a lot of people asking and debating whether "only" psychedelics can yield "enlightenment". To me this doesn't make sense because we cannot isolate a psychedelic experience from the inter-connectedness of Reality. If someone has an awakening related to psychedelics, how would we determine it was "only" psychedelics? What if the person had meditated a few times years ago and got a couple insights? Would that disqualify the awakening as "only" psychedelics? What if the person had reach quasi nondual states while running? What if the person had laid under the stars and pondered "who am I?"and received insights? Would that count as self-inquiry? What if the person had entered another realm during lucid dreaming? Or had a revelation watching a nondual video? To me, it's all inter-related and we can't remove and isolate an event from it's vast inter-connectedness. 

I don't think the question "Can only psychedelics yield awakening?" is a good question - because it is a binary "either / or" framework. I think a better question would be "Can psychedelics contribute to awakening?". I like this frame better as it allows for inter-connectedness. Then we could ask questions like "How significant is the contribution?", "What factors is this contribution related to and dependent upon?".

Yes, I agree with that.

[Forestluv]

2 minutes ago, FredFred said:

Let me rephrase.

Let's say someone experiments heavily with powerful substances like 5-MeO : will this person ever be able to become a Buddha, a arhat, totally freed from fetters?

I get what you are asking. It's a commonly asked question, yet difficult question to answer - because there is a destination in mind. A destination that is ill-defined. Exactly how would you determine if one is a Buddha, arhat or free from fetters? if you really get in there, dig deep and try to define it - it will collapse - because it is groundless grounding. We could spend years discussing the essence and meaning of a Buddha, arhat or total freedom from fetters. And we would keep going around in circles. 

Ime, the most powerful aspect of 5-Meo is the potential for a transcendence of all of this. For example, consider the question: Can a man restrained by fetters be totally free from fetters? There is a transcendence of that question. 

[phoenix666]

I deeply agree with you, @Serotoninluv and @Matt8800

from my own experience with meditation, yoga and tripping: I seriously started practicing daily after a deep psychedelic experience, which opened my door to spirituality and to my "inner" world

I asked myself "what is actually a psychedelic?" repeatedly whilst tripping and I got some very fulfilling answer in form of intuition and pictures I can't quite put into words. they revealed themselves as a kind of wormhole, like a portal inside of reality which can profoundly unravel all of existence to the point where everything dissolves: barriers, beliefs, concepts, language, thought. and as a consequence of all that, everything becomes one

but really, psychedelics can't show you anything which is not already inside of you. it's all in you; it's just hidden under a veil of concepts and beliefs. the psychedelic experience really is just the dissolution of that fog, that veil which separates us from unity and divine love, divine everything

we can't really separate psychedelics from "us", from our experiences, from reality. they're part of reality and thus part of ourselves (as we are all of reality) 

"becoming enlightened just by psychedelics" thus doesn't exist in my opinion