Conspiracies do happen! And they have a massive influence on society

[CaptainBobbyOlsen]

On 16.9.2019 at 8:54 PM, Moreira said:

Leo, in your opinion are all conspiracies wrong or some are true?

Do you believe that 11s was a terrorist attack made by some angry muslims?

Do you think 5G waves are completely healthy?

I obviously can’t speak for Leo, but I will still try and sling a little ball of tinfoil... Leo as with everyone else will only go as far as to where his current beliefs tells him to go. Right now he equates believing in conspiracies to an act of devilry, and a distraction not worth looking deeply at.

I see Leo as someone who is willing to accept only some of the major issues/conspiracies that are at the forefront of how our society is managed. From my understanding of how Leo sees society he will indeed accept “knee” deep conspiracies such as the way that some libertarians and their philosophy are a hindrance to the development of our society. He will accept obvious conspiracies such as the “Kochtopus” as evidence by his posts about the Koch brothers, and will use the stupendousness of low-consciousness in some parts of the libertarian circles to showcase how a libertarian society is not the high-conscious society we here at actualized.org are trying to actualize.

I might be wrong, but I don’t think that Leo is willing to jump belly first into the ocean of conspiracy just yet. Unfortunately he along with the majority of society will keep spending time dabbling on the shoreline catching small “coastal” conspiracies, not knowing that out in the deep ocean he will be able to catch the giants  

[avilo]

Portraying conspiracy theorists as silly is very important for making people completely conform when they want to implement tracking chips in your body

 

But ofc smaller conspiracies do happen, like a company conspiring to pretend they are benevolent, passionate, charitable etc. while they only want money and to screw over the customer

Edited September 24, 2019 by avilo

[Emerald]

On 9/4/2019 at 0:18 AM, Leo Gura said:

What you should notice about conspiracy theorists in general is that they have low quality minds and are emotionally immature.

It's an attractive distraction from deep inner work.

And the fact that once in a blue moon a conspiracy theory gets a bit of validation only makes conspiracy theorists all the more dangerous. If conspiracy theories were 100% false all the time, they would not be nearly as dangerous as when they are 90% false. The devil always needs to sprinkle in a few nuggets of truth into his teachings in order to get people bought in. A devil never sells you outright falsehood. The devil rarely outright lies. Because it's ineffective. The devil prefers to twist and pervert the truth. That's far more effective and malicious.

The greatest delusions are built upon kernels of truth. There needs to be just enough truth so that the mind can rationalize away all the obvious falsehood.

Alex Jones is a textbook example of this.

You know what the greatest falsehood is today? Science!

Precisely because it's so accurate at making predictions. Nobody suspects that the entirety of science could be a house of cards. Science is one of the devil's greatest works of deception.

Well, honestly there are conspiracies going on left and right. And it's free public knowledge even.

It's just that the real conspiracies are of little to no interest to most conspiracy theorists.

They prefer to focus on "Flat Earth" and "Elvis is secretly still alive" rather than focus on the fact that "The government is bought and paid for by billionaires to do their bidding at the expense of the average person."

The real stuff just isn't sexy enough for them.

 

[Bas]

It's generally easy to recognise a conspiracy theorist, they are always a little afraid of their own ideas. And they think you have to be as well in order to understand them. These conspiracy theories can only feed off your time when you let fear and distrust dictate you. The opposite, naivety and gullibility, believing everything your parents/ the state/ and science tell you... same problem.

I mean look at this shit, isn't that just cool?!

 

[CaptainBobbyOlsen]

22 hours ago, Bas said:

It's generally easy to recognise a conspiracy theorist, they are always a little afraid of their own ideas. And they think you have to be as well in order to understand them. These conspiracy theories can only feed off your time when you let fear and distrust dictate you. The opposite, naivety and gullibility, believing everything your parents/ the state/ and science tell you... same problem.

I mean look at this shit, isn't that just cool?!

 

I’m not quite sure what exactly it is that you’re trying to explain… Are you saying that in order for one to believe in a conspiracy, that you will then first have to be afraid of the consequences of that conspiracy, otherwise you won’t be fooled by it since it is not a reflection of reality? And are you then implying that believing that the navy-footage of UFOs showing that advanced technologies exist is an example of this?

[Bas]

Reality unfolds itself in many multilayered evolving systems. To make sense of them, and how you should interact with them, every individual needs to develop their own framework of meaning and causality. We generally think there is one "true" way to divide up and define the world around us, but there are infinite different ways to assign causal connections and meaning. They are all your own projection, knowing that, you can stop care about "conspiracies" and what is the "right way" of seeing things.

When some guy has a vlog about how he hunts down Yeti every day, then that's fine, he's found his life purpose. But I'd generally say to the person who watches his videos and makes it their day job to point others to the findings of this yetihunter that they could probably be spending their time in a more efficient way that would benefit their own personal growth. Take control of your own creation, fight for the beliefs you want to materialise, surrender the beliefs that don't serve you (anymore), and above all swim in bewilderment 

Reality is your own big conspiracy!

 

(btw: The Federal Reserve started pumping 75 billion dollars in the economy past few days, they plan to do that till October, what's up with that?!)

[CaptainBobbyOlsen]

I can’t see how one would be able to disagree with this statement:

On 25.9.2019 at 8:41 PM, Bas said:

Reality unfolds itself in many multilayered evolving systems. To make sense of them, and how you should interact with them, every individual needs to develop their own framework of meaning and causality. We generally think there is one "true" way to divide up and define the world around us, but there are infinite different ways to assign causal connections and meaning. They are all your own projection, knowing that, you can stop care about "conspiracies" and what is the "right way" of seeing things.

This is just a cool and well-formulated description of how the construction of a worldview is 100% relative and without any substance other than whatever meaning that you ascribe to it. This however is not a sentiment to say that conspiracies are not vital in understanding how our society works, and knowing how we ought to improve it. In my own self-imposed projections a worldview will never be complete without making room for the possibility that conspiracies can be true. How can you understand a structure in society such as government without leaving open the possibility that ego-delusion/devilry/low-consciousness/conspiracies are a possibility within that domain of society? Such a worldview would never be "complete"...

Edited October 2, 2019 by CaptainBobbyOlsen

[Dodo]

On 04/09/2019 at 5:18 AM, Leo Gura said:

What you should notice about conspiracy theorists in general is that they have low quality minds and are emotionally immature.

It's an attractive distraction from deep inner work.

And the fact that once in a blue moon a conspiracy theory gets a bit of validation only makes conspiracy theorists all the more dangerous. If conspiracy theories were 100% false all the time, they would not be nearly as dangerous as when they are 90% false. The devil always needs to sprinkle in a few nuggets of truth into his teachings in order to get people bought in. A devil never sells you outright falsehood. The devil rarely outright lies. Because it's ineffective. The devil prefers to twist and pervert the truth. That's far more effective and malicious.

The greatest delusions are built upon kernels of truth. There needs to be just enough truth so that the mind can rationalize away all the obvious falsehood.

Alex Jones is a textbook example of this.

You know what the greatest falsehood is today? Science!

Precisely because it's so accurate at making predictions. Nobody suspects that the entirety of science could be a house of cards. Science is one of the devil's greatest works of deception.

I have to say as I even got a warning here about a conspiracy long ago... The things you're saying are true, but also in my case I really believed what I was saying due to astronomically low-probability events/coincidences happening which made me question things on a very deep level. And since I have a radically open mind, I did not immediately disregard what seemed out-there and simply tried to share what I thought was true with the only community I know that have a mind as open as mine. 

Edited October 5, 2019 by Dodo

[CaptainBobbyOlsen]

@Dodo Hey Dodo.

I’m curious to know which “conspiracies” you were talking about, and the justifications you got when you received the warning. Furthermore I would like to know how your worldview has changed since then, as it appears that you have constructed a new worldview that does not incorporate the existence of conspiracies… Thanks  

[Dodo]

18 hours ago, CaptainBobbyOlsen said:

@Dodo Hey Dodo.

I’m curious to know which “conspiracies” you were talking about, and the justifications you got when you received the warning. Furthermore I would like to know how your worldview has changed since then, as it appears that you have constructed a new worldview that does not incorporate the existence of conspiracies… Thanks  

I think I cannot discuss conspiracies as it is against the forum rules. I think you can see the thread from my profile when you look near  the warning.  

Edited October 9, 2019 by Dodo

[tenta]

Man loses thousands of dollars in prize money because of a single short comment on hong kong protestors:

 

[Dodo]

On 04/09/2019 at 2:40 PM, Leo Gura said:

Conspiracy theories about a faked moon landing are so low quality. All their debunking is garbage.

It's as stupid as flat Earthers.

Intellectual midgetry.

From my perspective as a non-dualist and consciousness-ist, I believe that even round earth is a conspiracy. That the Earth exists is also a conspiracy, since currently it does not exist in my direct experience! 

[CaptainBobbyOlsen]

On 9.10.2019 at 11:53 AM, Dodo said:

I think I cannot discuss conspiracies as it is against the forum rules. I think you can see the thread from my profile when you look near  the warning.  

 

On 9.10.2019 at 9:34 PM, Dodo said:

From my perspective as a non-dualist and consciousness-ist, I believe that even round earth is a conspiracy. That the Earth exists is also a conspiracy, since currently it does not exist in my direct experience! 

The purpose of this thread is to slowly remove the devilry and self-deception that is created when conspiracies are neglected, and it is utterly impossible not to discuss conspiracies when the objective is to ignite the fire that will reveal the hidden field of conspiracies, which is keeping society from evolving. Up until this point this thread hasn’t been locked, so it apparently doesn’t completely contradict the ideology of this forum  Hopefully none of us will be banned for sharing our own self-deceived worldviews here. Just don’t push any outrageous and “non-productive” conspiracies, which have no real overarching influence on society. The conspiracies that are important are rarely single occurrences, but systemic issues that run throughout society like a virus that goes undetected… The core conspiracies are so in tune with the nature of our society that they are nearly impossible to distinguish from society itself. This is because they literally are made of the fabric of society it self, they are so ingrained into society, they are the pillars that most people try to defend and they are the very thing that people here on actualized doesn't see through. As a wise bald man has said many times here on actualized “The greatest delusions are built upon kernels of truth. There needs to be just enough truth so that the mind can rationalize away all the obvious falsehood.”.

It is increasingly disappointing to see that many of the most conscious people on the planet (actualized audiences), who have all to an amazing extend managed to break through the chains of humanity’s spiritual dogma, and are know seeking genuine spiritual purification rather than blind devilry, are not able to apply the same rigor to society that they apply to their own self-discovery. There is equally as much deception in society as in the human mind, if not more. Society is an extension of the mind, and we all know here on actualized.org how little we ought to trust the mind. The mind is the greatest deceiver of them all. When all the discussions about society here on actualized.org mirror the discussions of the average citizen on the mainstream outlets we have take a step back and recognize that something has gone amiss, unnoticed and lacking in Meta.

Seriously!! The debates about Sanders vs Yang are damn near perfect reflections of why society is still in the lower stages in spiral dynamics! It simply does not matter who is elected as president! It does not matter!!! It doesn’t. A vote for a single person every fourth year is the greatest masterstroke any deceiver has ever come up with! Change cannot come with a vote, it can only come with meta-consciousness and this unfortunately is not even shining through on the most “meta-conscious” forum on the Internet. Go Meta or go home  Go conscious and not Sanders/Yang/anyone!

[Matt8800]

On 9/2/2019 at 10:50 PM, CaptainBobbyOlsen said:

So in my own possible self-deception, there is no doubt that conspiracies do in fact happen, the question is the following: is it of any importance at all? I think that it is of massive importance 

@CaptainBobbyOlsen Really? How exactly has these conspiracies affected you  personally? How was today different for you in particular because of a conspiracy?

None of that matters. You are wasting your time and energy on distractions. Your life is literally no different from them being either true or false.

I had one person trying to convince me that the government was controlling peoples minds through fluoride in the water....as they were drinking tap water with fluoride in it lol 

Edited October 21, 2019 by Matt8800

[CaptainBobbyOlsen]

22 hours ago, Matt8800 said:

@CaptainBobbyOlsen Really? How exactly has these conspiracies affected you  personally? How was today different for you in particular because of a conspiracy?

None of that matters. You are wasting your time and energy on distractions. Your life is literally no different from them being either true or false.

I had one person trying to convince me that the government was controlling peoples minds through fluoride in the water....as they were drinking tap water with fluoride in it lol 

Hi @Matt8800 . I love your wisdom in the field of occultism, and I have learned a lot by reading your posts, so thanks for that   However I thought that someone like you would be a little less conventional in your view of conspiracies, but that is okay since not everyone can have the same delusions as I… Hehe

I feel like you are completely missing the point here. I’m not saying that conspiracies are affecting me personally more so than other people. In fact the opposite is pretty much true, since I was born in Denmark and have been lucky enough to be raised fairly undogmatically by a couple of caring but low-conscious parents. The fact that I have a great life “generally” unaffected by conspiracies does not mean that my vision for the future of society shouldn’t be an important aspect of my purpose in this life. I bet that you and I can agree that our society is not perfect at the moment. Society is not a facilitator of great wisdom and high-consciousness, but quite the opposite. My approach to this problem of low-consciousness in society is that there are root-causes for it, and that these roots are based on low-conscious people/organizations/ideas/other extending their low-consciousness out into society. Society literally is grounded in the devilry that low-consciousness manifests, and that the only way out of this is to acknowledge the low-conscious structures and slowly purge them like one would purge deep-rooted ego-structures during spiritual work. My worldview is literally that the low-consciousness of society is grounded in low-conscious structures, and that these structures are much more far-reaching than what most people believe. Obviously this is not an easy worldview to adopt when ones worldview is based on conventional interpretations of society, and I’m not really hoping to “turn” actualized.org per se other than making people realize that society does not “run” in the way that most people think. Politics is not the deciding factor in the future of our society! The president of the United States of America is not the deciding factor in making society more conscious! He/she is basically a non-factor! Tell me how many of the doomsday prophesies that came true when trump won over an equally dreadful/low-conscious person whom too would be a non-factor had she been president. Look at all the people who thought that the president of “change” aka Obama was going to turn the path of society? What did he do exactly besides being the face of a façade that seemed friendly, funny and down to earth etc. nothing… nothing! Society is not driven by politics. Politics at the moment are like the age old analogy of a puppet theater, or you can use Plato’s cave instead if you like that one better or make one up I you like… the point being that the image you see on the stage or the phantoms you see on the cave walls are just that, images and phantoms, they are not the causes they are simply a façade, a trickery, delusion thought to be the truth. 

You believe that my day-to-day life is basically unaffected by conspiracies because you haven’t included in your worldview the idea that the structures that run society is infested with devilry. Economics are infested with devilry. Politics are infested with devilry. Schools are infected with devilry. Spirituality is infected with devilry. Basically every major aspect of society that in any way, shape or form influences you on a day-to-day basis is infested with low-consciousness/devilry/ego-delusion/conspiracy. Conspiracies are not rare occurrences happening once or twice in a decade with little to no practical implications, on the contrary they are the very structures that create our current low-conscious society. Conspiracy is literally just the way that lower stages of spiral dynamics exert their own low-consciousness out into the world. Pick one important aspect of society and show me exactly how that domain is not infested with low-consciousness. Even the elements that are trying to put on a mask of high-consciousness (climate warriors, “green” politicians and so on) are rarely more that another trick that the devilry in that domain of society exerts onto the rest of society.

The conspiracies in society is not the main mission in the current chapter of my life, it its in fact the total opposite of societal revolution as my current objective in life is spiritual evolution. Once I realize more of the “Truth” and embody it even further I will probably turn my focus more to societal evolution and try to make an impact on the future shaping of society. However I still recognize that on a societal level the most important problem is not who/whom is elected into office in the USA or in Denmark for that matter, but people understanding that it is the basic cornerstones in society that needs to be transformed not the face on the TV-screen. Economics has to be transformed, politics has to be transformed, education has to be transformed and so on. You may tell yourself that I’m wasting my time when I’m believing in this nuttery, but how is that different from when you are told by people unaware of the occult that “there is not more to life than what meets the eye”? As with occultism so it is with society… there is more to society than what meets the eye  

Thanks for reading! I hope that I didn’t come across as a total jackass way to full of himself, have a lovely day  

Edited October 22, 2019 by CaptainBobbyOlsen

[Matt8800]

@CaptainBobbyOlsen Thanks for the kind words

I used to get myself involved in conspiracy theories when I was younger. I would caution against it and here are a few reasons:

1. There is rarely any empirical evidence. Many people, such as flat earthers, will claim they have hard evidence through complex theories but if you break it down, many times there are epistemological errors. Its usually a complex story that might sounds suspicious, assuming all the parts are true (many times they are littered with things that simply arent true when looked at deeper). I have had people tell me they have proof that Hillary Clinton was a mass murderer. I told them they should go to some anti-Clinton authorities and give them their evidence. They always decline because, deep down, they know it doesnt fit a rigorous definition of evidence. They usually say something like "It doesnt work like that" without explaining why. The simultaneously believe unconsciously that they have evidence while knowing they dont have real evidence. That fits the definition of cognitive dissonance.

2. For the few theories that might actually be true, so what? Even if Clinton was a child sex-slave-selling mass murderer, what impact does it have to obsess about it? Why focus on a few theoretical murders when there is actual proof of thousands of people being brutally tortured, raped and murdered in places like Syria? There was never a time in human civilization that corruption and shenanigans by powerful people didnt happen. People might say that they are helping by knowing about it and talking about it but if you look at it closely, it will do nothing - especially if there is no proper empirical evidence that cannot be argued against. All this psychic energy that people are wasting on these things does literally nothing. 

3. It misdirects what the real focus should be. It robs one of inward focus to focus outward, which is like a cancer to spiritual work.

4. If someone was being honest, the most they could say is that they dont know if the conspiracy theory is real or not because the "evidence" never fits the definition of empirical.

My advice to anyone that believes in a lot of conspiracy theories is to study epistemology thoroughly and then apply what they have learned to the theories. Someone who has a solid grasp of epistemology is very likely to believe different things than someone who doesnt know anything about it. It certainly had a massive impact on my beliefs.

Edited October 23, 2019 by Matt8800

[Dodo]

 This song is relevant 

[CaptainBobbyOlsen]

Hi @Matt8800. You definitely do raise some valid concerns, some of which I agree with, but I can’t help but notice that it seems that what you and I are talking about here are almost two separate things. When I say that society is driven into a preconceived direction through the use of both certain individuals conspiring and the major societal structures I’m not necessarily talking about theories about Clinton being an “evil” person, or the moon landings being faked, or 9/11 or any other specific “conspiracy”. What I’m really talking about is very much like “the invisible hand” that Adam Smith talked about, where an unseen element is a deciding factor, “the invisible hand” in society isn’t anything tangible but it is the collective identity, which society is attached to at the moment. Society in general lacks depth of consciousness conceptualized in spiral dynamics as tier 1 dynamics namely red/blue/orange/green. This low-conscious identity is the source of all the problems in society, there are no other problems than this one, since every major conceived problem stems from lack of consciousness in that particular societal structure. I can’t see how knowing about conspiracies and advocating boarder understanding is a waste of psychic energy. There has never been a serious root-problem in the history of the human race, which was not first fixed with a proper psychic understanding. If we want to turn society into a beautiful symbiosis of high-consciousness we will have to go beyond anything currently conventional/mainstream and understand the problem at a deeper level, as the inability to do so is surely why we have not progressed further yet.

You talk about lack of empirical evidence as if empirical evidence is the highest form of truth, and that it should be the deciding factor in determining the fate of society. There is no such thing as empirical evidence, and a short little internet-search yielded this little document; http://www.f.waseda.jp/sidoli/Omnibus_Science_Sidoli_01.pdf, which I thought summed up the problem of empirical-ness in easy to understand English. It seems so convenient to say that something is empirically true as it feels like it automatically renders every counter argument to a pointless afterthought since “its is empirically true, so you must accept it”, you don’t even have to question anything empirical since under this paradigm there is nothing to question, there is only holding on to the conventionally empirical views. It is generally thought that it is empirically true that the paranormal/occult/spiritual domains of existence do not exist, and that everything that argues the contrary is either ignorance of fact/science or pseudoscience (BTW the terms pseudoscience and conspiracy theory are basically used in the same way in order to frame something as delusional). You and I both know that mainstream science is not correct on this one...

I sometimes play with this concept where I generally see two paths of “truth-seeking”. The first path I call the outward seeker who seeks the truths of society and wants to see behind the veil of how society really functions, and then there is the inward seeker who wants to find the truths of that which is within, the truth of the self and of existence etc. Most people are not “seekers”, and so they don’t fit into either of the “paths”, but the ones who are seekers they are usually either primarily seeking “truth” in society often through conspiracies, or they are seeking spiritual truths about themselves and existence. It is rare that one is equally on both paths at the same time, but it happens. Anyone who is solely on either path knows that in order to come to grips with some deep “truths” they will have to go waaaay beyond anything that is conventional. An inward seeker will first find “real” truths once he/she has gone so far beyond the individual mind that the average human can’t understand. An outward seeker will first find “real” truths in society once he/she has gone so far beyond anything the average worldview can accept... My point here is that if you view society as being just like how any random news-broadcast outlines it then you are far from the “truth”. News-broardcasts are equally as misdirected about society as the church of Christianity is about non-duality and the self… There are so many similarities with society and spirituality, and if one is looking for the “truth” in either domain one will have to turn away from the mainstream. A problem arises here where if you are predominantly a seeker of spiritual truths you don’t often go very far beyond the conventional view on society, and therefore you will not arrive at a very deep truth concerning society(this is most people on actualized.org), the same problem goes the other way around for a seeker predominantly seeking in society… Hopefully this analogy makes a little bit of sense  

I have done quite a bit of research on epistemology myself, however I would like to know if you have some great recourses, that could help broaden my understanding of this very important aspect of “knowing”?

Have a great day  

[CaptainBobbyOlsen]

Wow Leo's video about the ridiculous importance of distinguishing between content and structure is basically the entire thing that is being pointed at in this thread!

The only major theme that does not correlate with my own self-indulgent worldview is that once again it seems that in terms of society and politics, there isn’t quite the same rigorous standard divide between what is deceptive/misleading content, and what is the meta-structure that keeps that content surface-bound. How can this be?

It is interesting how one can have such “meta-understanding”, and still get lost in discussing the absolute atrociousness that is the illusion of difference between democrats and republicans. Having a view of society that tells you that there exists an important dynamic in the choice that is presented in a modern “democracy” is the most obvious example of getting lost in content. There might be a 0.0211% chance that electing “one” president over another is going to be the deciding factor in change throughout the all-important structural mechanisms that run society. It is crucial to understand that even if major changes that would alter the path of society were to happen after a somewhat “conscious” president has been elected, that the change did not come from that single PERSON!! But from an elevated meta-understanding of society amongst the general public. Society is far too complex to be centrally orchestrated by a single person. If everything from education to economics to politics and so on were to be changed for the better after an election, it would come at the cost of first exposing the low-conscious structures that are running the show at the moment. As Leo alludes to in the video, this is going to come the moment that meta-consciousness pervades in society. With meta-consciousness there comes to my knowledge an understanding of one of the most fundamental structures that run society, which is the deliberate manipulation of the people through low-conscious people and structures aka conspiracy(ies)…

Have a lovely day  

[Apparition of Jack]

13 hours ago, CaptainBobbyOlsen said:

 With meta-consciousness there comes to my knowledge an understanding of one of the most fundamental structures that run society, which is the deliberate manipulation of the people through low-conscious people and structures aka conspiracy(ies)...

What are some examples of these conspiracies exaclty?

Edited November 14, 2019 by Apparition of Jack