If Muhammad was enlightened then why is Islam dogmatic?

[Nahm]

@Truth Addict 

39 minutes ago, Nahm said:

It's dualistic.

 

39 minutes ago, Nahm said:

he word cup is dualistic like all words

 

39 minutes ago, Nahm said:

dualistic thinking is used to create definitions

 

40 minutes ago, Nahm said:

What is that without the dualistic thinking?

 

47 minutes ago, Nahm said:

Definitions are dualistic, made up - created.

Yes the pointers are also actually truth. 

[Truth Addict]

@Nahm

Truth in the sense that the opposite is false?

[Nahm]

@Truth Addict What opposite are you talking about?

[Matt8800]

4 hours ago, lmfao said:

If Muhammad was enlightened, then why did he create an ideology? How can someone who creates irrational beliefs be enlightened? What's the alternative, he willingly lied his entire life about literally believing the things he said? Or did he actually hold all sorts of ideological beliefs for no coherent reason? 

I've watched Leo's Islam videos, essentially just saying Islam was advanced relative to the time it came. But this still leaves me wondering how someone can be enlightened but then create some ideology out of thin air. Was ideology the only way to share his experience in that era? 

@lmfaoThe claim that Muhammad transcended the ego is suspect imo based on his communicated desire to control. I will admit that he was most likely a gifted mystic.

The true mystics combined what Muhammad had said and Sufism was the result. Sufis have a more live and let live credo, unlike a warlord's mentality.

I think many people try to put a positive spin on other peoples' dogma for the same reason people give trophies to kids just for playing - it makes every feel good but has no basis in Truth. In the long run, it hurts more than helps.

Edited September 1, 2019 by Matt8800

[lmfao]

4 hours ago, Aakash said:

@lmfao Muhammad never lied, he was telling the truth about god. He was just telling you the level he reached in his own words. That’s all, that’s all anyone can do.. because you truly do not know what you do not know. 

To awaken people you must communicate it to them if your stage coral, or if you can do it via siddhis then you can do it at stage teal. His consciousness of absolute truth obviously was not complete. 

Sometimes gurus will hang around before they decide to become enlightened like sadhguru to get people to the stage where they can reach absolute truth. 

Maybe he did the same, who knows ... in this case it’s not the teachings that were incorrect, the teachings got diluted as they went box to box through millions of awarenesses interpreting those exact texts like we are now and added their own delusions to it. 

I can garuntee you that all the texts are useless now. They’ve been revised way too many times. However, they do contain many gems. 

The reasons gurus need to stick around is to guide people in that era correctly. Although it’s not wrong to go it’s service to others. Even fully realised beings technically have dharma they can complete. 

The reason I say that he might not have reached absolute truth is because the teachings have got diluted and I can’t trust them to tell me full truth. But who knows if he did or did not. Only he would have known. 

Muslims usually pride themselves on the idea that the Quran verses haven't been changed at all throughout hundreds of years. Of course there's the whole satanic verse controversy, but that aside I have a feeling that the Quranic text itself (not hadiths or interpretations of the quran) has been very stable and consistent. 

Edited September 1, 2019 by lmfao

[lmfao]

21 minutes ago, Matt8800 said:

@lmfaoThe claim that Muhammad transcended the ego is suspect imo based on his communicated desire to control. I will admit that he was most likely a gifted mystic.

The true mystics combined what Muhammad had said and Sufism was the result. Sufis have a more live and let live credo, unlike a warlord's mentality.

I think many people try to put a positive spin on other peoples' dogma for the same reason people give trophies to kids just for playing - it makes every feel good but has no basis in Truth. In the long run, it hurts more than helps.

Yeah, it confuses me a little. I just wonder what was going on his head, when he decided to spread his message the way he did and what motivated him. I wonder whether he truly believed his words fundamentally or what. I'll never know. Maybe he tricked himself into believing something through hallucinations and long meditation.

He probably saw Christians and Jews around him growing up, believed in a variation of it and decided to mix it up. 

Edited September 1, 2019 by lmfao

[Truth Addict]

@Nahm

Such as:

• It's not dualistic.
• The word cup is not dualistic like all words.
• Definitions are not dualistic, not made up - not created.
• etc...

[zeroISinfinity]

2 minutes ago, Truth Addict said:

@Nahm

Such as:

• It's not dualistic.
• The word cup is not dualistic like all words.
• Definitions are not dualistic, not made up - not created.
• etc...

1 hour ago, Nahm said:

@Truth Addict 

 

 

 

 

Yes the pointers are also actually truth. 

See this is the Truth. Actuality those black lines and White screen not meaning of these words(language) 

TRUTH =THIS=ACTUALITY =my actual True self. 

All of this is Pure Love. But You Will get there with Meditation or some other Spiritual technique. 

 

 

[Truth Addict]

14 minutes ago, Matt8800 said:

@lmfaoThe claim that Muhammad transcended the ego is suspect imo based on his communicated desire to control. 

The true mystics combined what Muhammad had said and Sufism was the result. Sufis have a more live and let live credo, unlike a warlord's mentality.

I think many people try to put a positive spin on other peoples' dogma for the same reason people give trophies to kids just for playing - it makes every feel good but has no basis in Truth. In the long run, it hurts more than helps.

Pretty much stage Green understanding of Islam.

Mohammad was the Turquoise of his era. He understood how society worked back then and played their game and won it. The guy was a legend. You gotta be very nuanced to see how advanced he was. Sufis are no match for him.

9 minutes ago, lmfao said:

Muslims usually pride themselves on the idea that the Quran verses haven't been changed at all throughout hundreds of years. Of course there's the whole satanic verse controversy, but that aside I have a feeling that the Quranic text itself (not hadiths or interpretations of the quran) has been very stable and consistent. 

It's hard, or nearly impossible, to say if the Quran was manipulated or not. There are many doubts about that, and many of them seem reasonable.

One should read between the lines.

[Nahm]

15 minutes ago, Truth Addict said:

@Nahm

Such as:

• It's not dualistic.
• The word cup is not dualistic like all words.
• Definitions are not dualistic, not made up - not created.
• etc...

Can you explain a little more what it is you’re saying? 

Are you asking if Truth has an opposite?

[Truth Addict]

5 minutes ago, Nahm said:

Are you asking if Truth has an opposite?

No. I'm not saying that. I'm not even seeking to get answers. I'm trying to cause an apocalypse.

9 minutes ago, Nahm said:

Can you explain a little more what it is you’re saying?

Something meta, something beyond explanation.

[zeroISinfinity]

Where is the oposite of THIS.

Where is it? 

Lol It's not a rocket science. ?

Edited September 1, 2019 by zeroISinfinity

[Nahm]

@Truth Addict  So, you aren’t saying anything, then...?  Pointing, but not even pointing?

[Matt8800]

29 minutes ago, Truth Addict said:

Pretty much stage Green understanding of Islam.

Mohammad was the Turquoise of his era. He understood how society worked back then and played their game and won it. The guy was a legend. You gotta be very nuanced to see how advanced he was. Sufis are no match for him.

It's hard, or nearly impossible, to say if the Quran was manipulated or not. There are many doubts about that, and many of them seem reasonable.

One should read between the lines.

We'll have to agree to disagree

[Truth Addict]

@Nahm

Exactly! Because how can a pointer point to itself?

Okay, I'll try. I'll use some pointers:

There's the distinction between thought and reality that you're still creating. This distinction itself is a thought.

So, you're still practically practising duality without even knowing.

Or, it seems so to me from what you've written before.

@zeroISinfinity

[Nahm]

7 minutes ago, Truth Addict said:

@Nahm

Exactly! Because how can a pointer point to itself?

Okay, I'll try. I'll use some pointers:

There's the distinction between thought and reality that you're still creating. This distinction itself is a thought.

So, you're still practically practising duality without even knowing.

Or, it seems so to me from what you've written before.

@zeroISinfinity

It is because a pointer can not point to itself, that the word pointer is used. 

What is the distinction between thought and reality that you are referencing?

What was written which you are referencing as practicing duality without even knowing? 

These are specific reference to what has been said, not pointers. 

Can you paste what you are referencing?

[Truth Addict]

7 hours ago, Nahm said:

What was written which you are referencing as practicing duality without even knowing?

This:

7 hours ago, Nahm said:

These are specific reference to what has been said, not pointers. 

Distinction. Duality.

[khalifa]

9 hours ago, Truth Addict said:

Sufis are no match for him.

Sufi's do get nonduality, just as mysitcal christians,japanese zen,buddhists and hindus (atman) do

I still don't get why don't they leave their cult after it, i guess it's preference cherry pick of why not?

As you can see in their poetry, there is some evidence of them getting it, unless if they use it an excuse of art and are not being too serious about it, islam is generally pretty hardcore or rather should i say extremists are.

 

Tear down the mosque, the temple,

Destroy whatever you please.

but don't kill a human heart for that is where god resides

~ bulleh shah

Look into yourself -

You have learnt so much,

read a thousand books,

have you ever read your self?

You have gone to mosques and temples,

Have you ever visited your soul?

You have reached into skies,

but you have failed to reach,

what's in your heart.

~ bulleh shah

 

Define and narrow me, you starve yourself of yourself Nail me down in a box of cold worlds, that box is your coffin. I do not know who I am. I am in astounding lucid confusion. I am not a christian, I am not a jew, I am not a zoroastrian, And I am not even a muslim. Not Christian or Jew or Muslim, not Hindu,Buddhist, Sufi, or Zen. Not any religion or cultural system. I do not belong to the land, or any known or unknown sea. Nature cannot own or claim me, nor can heaven, Nor can china or bulgaria, I am not from the east or the west, not out of the ocean or up from the ground, not natural or ethereal, not composed of elements at all. I do not exist, am not an entity in this world or the next, did not descend from Adam and Eve or any origin story. My birthplace is placelessness, My sign is to have and give no sign, You say you see my mouth,ears,nose --- they are not mine. I am the life of life I am the cat, this stone, no one. I have thrown duality away like an old dishrag. I see and know all times and worlds, As one, one, always one. So what do i have to do to get you to admit who is speaking? Admit it and change everything! This is your own voice echoing off the walls of God.

I belong to the beloved, have seen the two worlds as one, one, Always one.

~Rumi

Edited September 2, 2019 by khalifa

[Aakash]

1 minute ago, khalifa said:

I belong to the beloved, have seen the two worlds as one, one, Always one.

~Rumi

“One” is still a distinction. “Zero” is still a distinction. “All is still a distinction” “none is still a distinction” 

and im not just talking about the words, I’m talking about in actuality. If there is one there is a distinction.... 

the lowest number of distinctions possible is always one 

[Angelite]

Oh I found this parable✨

Allah puts forth a Parable - a man belonging to many partners at variance with each other, and a (slave)man belonging entirely to one master: are those two equal in comparison? Praise be to Allah. But most of them have no knowledge. 39:29