Question about Jesus and Self-Bias

[TrynaBeTurquoise]

Some background about me as to why I'm asking this, if you care, I was indoctrinated from birth into a a christian fundamentalist cult Jehovahs Witnesses, and went to church or "meetings" in a congregation most of my life where we would study the bible and "preach its message" in public going from door to door, until I eventually had spiritual awakenings for myself, woke the hell up and got out when I was around 20 years old. So I have a quite the background in being exposed to fundamentalist biblical interpretations. But not so much in integrating what Jesus true message might have been relating to spirituality/non-duality. 

Leo has brought to light to me through his videos that Jesus was an enlightened figure, but I have trouble interpreting this quote of his relating to the notion self-bias to the human species, also the heaven/hell bit:

"Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell. 29 Are not two sparrows sold for a penny? Yet not one of them will fall to the ground outside your Father’s care. 30 And even the very hairs of your head are all numbered. 31 So don’t be afraid; you are worth more than many sparrows." -Matthew 10:28-30

Why is he putting humans above animals here in terms of worth? Is he speaking metaphorically here, or is this translation incorrect or something? Or like a low-level teaching that would resonate to who he was talking to here? Am looking for some clarity here and about Jesus and him being enlightened in general 

 

Edited August 30, 2019 by TrynaBeTurquoise

[mandyjw]

How did he put humans above sparrows there? He just mentioned the fact that people treat them as if they are worthless, two are sold for a penny. 

The one who can destroy the soul and body in hell is the ego or separate self, it's you. 

[Leo Gura]

Why play these abstract mind games?

Just realize: You are God! You are Jesus!

The end.

People make this shit so complicated.

[TrynaBeTurquoise]

5 minutes ago, mandyjw said:

How did he put humans above sparrows there? He just mentioned the fact that people treat them as if they are worthless, two are sold for a penny. 

The one who can destroy the soul and body in hell is the ego or separate self, it's you. 

You're right, I was looking at it the wrong way, probably from my left-over indoctrination. Thanks.

 

5 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Why play these abstract mind games?

Just realize: You are God! You are Jesus!

The end.

People make this shit so complicated.

I realize that this is an abstract mind game now but at the same time I still have some curiosity about this specific quote that Jesus said and the nature of his enlightenment. if I am curious about something specific in this world or at least asking a question about something, I think even you would agree that "Im God, I'm (insert subject of question)" is not going to cut it as the answer to everything in relative life even though its true.

[Leo Gura]

@TrynaBeTurquoise But the deeper question is, why are you so obsessed with understanding the words of a 2000 year old man when you cannot even verify if his words were accurately written down?

You see the deeper problem here? Your approach is so hopelessly indirect.

God is sitting right here! Yet you turn to some 2000 year old book written by we know not who.

It is as though you are in the middle of having sex, you stop, and you ask your partner to watch some porn with you instead because you want to know what sex is.

The key to spirituality is directness. The enemy of spirituality is indirectness. Cut out all the middlemen. They cannot truly help you.

[zeroISinfinity]

You are God and everything That goes with it. Correct definition same Love. 

[TrynaBeTurquoise]

Just now, Leo Gura said:

@TrynaBeTurquoise But the deeper question is, why are you so obsessed with understanding the words of a 2000 year old man when you cannot even verify if his words were accurately written down?

You see the deeper problem here? Your approach is so hopelessly indirect.

Thats true, again I have a lot of subconscious indoctrination still deep inside of me from my former religion. But I'm not obsessed with his words at all, it just popped into my head as random curiosity. And asked in the original post if this was even translated correctly, from which I should have realized there is no way of knowing anyway, so this was essentially pointless to ask. I just thought in a forum discussion I could get a little additional light shed on Jesus instead of it just being automatically reduced down to "You are God". But I see where you are coming from though and think you are right, yes this is extremely indirect

[cetus]

9 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

It is as though you are in the middle of having sex, you stop, and you ask your partner to watch some porn with you instead because you want to know what sex is.

@Leo Gura How do you come up with these gems?

[Inliytened1]

@TrynaBeTurquoise  Actually going thru an audio book on the New Testament now just to learn about it and it's very interesting how all the gospels contradict each other in many ways - were written by different people, decades after Jesus died.   Most didn't even know Jesus.  So there's a lot of uncertainty and speculation among scholars on whether the stuff in there actually happened or not.  So you have to take anything in there with a grain of salt.   The people writing it were going off other sources or what they heard from someone who heard it from someone who heard it from someone who heard it from someone and so on who supposedly knew Jesus....

 

Edited August 30, 2019 by Inliytened1

[Nahm]

@TrynaBeTurquoise

Those who kill the body (thought, duality, relativity, materialism) but not the soul (absolute, eternal) are enlightened, there is no fear in love. The one who can destroy both the soul and body in hell, is a reference to a sleeper who has yet to seek refuge, take caution. Also, it is written to the reader directly, not about others. The sparrows in your father’s care is a reference not to assume or project human suffering onto an inner world of animals in ignorance. The hairs of your head are numbered deepens this message, as in, all is cared for in God, worry not, he made a perfect world. Then one nondual layer deeper...don’t be afraid, you are worth more than many sparrows. (The rope is not a snake, and you are not a human)

It’s not a statement of worth, “two sparrows” is a pointer of duality / relativity / twoness. “One penny” is a pointer to nonduality. I would not take it metaphorically, I would take it as a pointer to the truth of self & world.

Nobody knows if there was a person Jesus, or if he was enlightened. In the same sense, no one knows if there is a TrynaBeTurquoise. The message, the realization matters, not any personifications or statures. 

Imo, it’d be ideal to save Jesus’s teachings for last. It’s very ‘hidden in plain sight’ ‘nothing is hidden from you’ ish. The Dharma, Ramana Maharshi’s teachings, and quantum mechanics might be ideal preceding teachings to grasp the Gospels. Everybody’s different though, so who knows. 

[TrynaBeTurquoise]

1 hour ago, Nahm said:

@TrynaBeTurquoise

Those who kill the body (thought, duality, relativity, materialism) but not the soul (absolute, eternal) are enlightened, there is no fear in love. The one who can destroy both the soul and body in hell, is a reference to a sleeper who has yet to seek refuge, take caution. Also, it is written to the reader directly, not about others. The sparrows in your father’s care is a reference not to assume or project human suffering onto an inner world of animals in ignorance. The hairs of your head are numbered deepens this message, as in, all is cared for in God, worry not, he made a perfect world. Then one nondual layer deeper...don’t be afraid, you are worth more than many sparrows. (The rope is not a snake, and you are not a human)

It’s not a statement of worth, “two sparrows” is a pointer of duality / relativity / twoness. “One penny” is a pointer to nonduality. I would not take it metaphorically, I would take it as a pointer to the truth of self & world.

Nobody knows if there was a person Jesus, or if he was enlightened. In the same sense, no one knows if there is a TrynaBeTurquoise. The message, the realization matters, not any personifications or statures. 

Imo, it’d be ideal to save Jesus’s teachings for last. It’s very ‘hidden in plain sight’ ‘nothing is hidden from you’ ish. The Dharma, Ramana Maharshi’s teachings, and quantum mechanics might be ideal preceding teachings to grasp the Gospels. Everybody’s different though, so who knows. 

@Nahm  This is insanely mind-blowing for me how hidden in plain sight that message is. I don't think I ever would have seen it in that light. Where did you learn this if you don't mind me asking?

[mandyjw]

@TrynaBeTurquoise If Christianity was a big part of your childhood, enlightenment will heal, redeem and reveal the truth in it to you. As Nahm said, you may need to deviate from Jesus's teachings and study others in order to come back to them with fresh eyes. It's a really beautiful phenomenon to have epiphanies about the deeper meaning of pointers you heard all your life taught to you by confused people.

4 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

People make this shit so complicated.

Part of your own gift of teaching is to make this shit so complicated. The logical mind wants to help understand truth on many levels, the trick is not allowing it to co-opt it and keep "truth" a secret from the heart. The depth and fullness of truth can only be understood by both the mind and heart in union, only then and there is it made direct and simple. If you grew up trying to love Jesus, and figuring out what accepting him in your heart really meant, it wouldn't seem like going off on a tangent to try to understand a verse like this. 

[Nahm]

@TrynaBeTurquoise It’s just a cumulative thing. I read the religious books a lot when I was younger, kind of a full circle. Btw, the four noble truths and the eight fold path are often easily overlooked in their simplicity, but in application realized not to be simple at all, and eventually reveal themselves to be the very means of ‘access’ to the more meta understanding of them. Buddha communicated in a divine near-perfect style unison of actuality and parable, much like Jesus spoke in absolute / nondual parables. 

"Whoever discovers the interpretation of these sayings will not taste death."

[zeroISinfinity]

Who discovers Vortex/PureLove and everything That goes with it Will never experience death. 

Only life. Forever in Heaven. 

Great to finally hear some tolerance for us Buddhist. Ok ok not Buddhist anymore but Buddha. ♥️?

Namaste. 

Here to help ya'all. 

Edited August 30, 2019 by zeroISinfinity

[Ibn Sina]

Enlightenment and Bullshitry are not mutually exclusive.

Buddha spoke a lot of bullshit.

Jesus spoke a lot of bullshit.

Muhammed spoke waaaaaaaaaaaaay more bullshit.

All 3 were enlightened.

How do I know?

Because it's not about what they say, but how they live.

Buddha showed radical detachment.

Jesus was forgiving those who were crucifying him.

Muhammed had fearlessness that only comes from awakening to Allah , being in touch with the nondual.

Only enlightened people can pull off these things. Because they are not 'of this world', so they act outside they forces of duality that governs we mere mortals. 

Edited August 30, 2019 by Ibn Sina

[zeroISinfinity]

There is no Bullshitery in Truth. 

Truth is Pure. 

Your personality doesn't die with enlightenment. 

Meditation is the way. 

Purity and Infinitude  of Source completelly obliterates You. Price You pay for Enlightenment is your own death. Jesus ressurection story Makes Perfect sense. 

Ask yourself What is really my biggest fear of all. 

To pull this of You really need to be someWhat crazy and Yes You need balls (first time You need, You do not know What Will happen next) 

Edited August 30, 2019 by zeroISinfinity

[Angelite]

5 hours ago, Nahm said:

Buddha communicated in a divine near-perfect style unison of actuality and parable, much like Jesus spoke in absolute / nondual parables. 

"Whoever discovers the interpretation of these sayings will not taste death."

In between Buddha & Jesus, there is the middle path (Muhammad) . What do you think?@Nahm

Honey Wine & Milk..

Jesus is the other extreme end, Buddha is the other extreme end.

Jesus is the everythingness, Buddha is the nothingness. 

Muhammad combines the two. Full circle. Purity. So we're both human and ascended soul.

For muslims it's okay if we don't get enlightened in this world. If we do get enlightened that's fine too. Because we're in the middle~

...

The real Buddha & real Jesus are fine. But it has then lost it's roots. Except few who are practicing it authentically. Some has lost it's real meaning. 

 

O people of the Book, do not exceeds in your religion, do not speak of Allah except that which is the truth. Jesus the son of Mary was Allah's messenger (who was created by) His Words, to Mary, and a spirit from Him : so believe in Allah and His Messengers. And do not say : "(God is) Trinity", desist (from saying that).It will be better for you. For Allah is One God: Glory be to Him: (far exalted is He) above having a son. To Him belong all things in the heavens and on earth. And enough is Allah as a Disposer of affairs. 4:171

Christ never resist to serve and worship Allah,nor do the angels, those nearest (to Allah). And those who refuse to worship Him and are arrogant, Allah will gather them all to Himself. 4:172

But those who believe and do righteous deeds, Allah will give their due rewards- and more, out of His bounty: but those who are disdainful and arrogant, He will punish with grievous penalty; nor will they find , besides Allah, any to protect or help them.  4:173

...

The bible translated Allah as "father"

Jesus as "son"

Rūh Al-Quds as the Holy Spirit.

Which leads to confusion. Subtle but the impact is huge. 

...

So say (o Muhammad) : "O my Lord, Grant You forgiveness and mercy for You are the Best of those who show mercy." [23:118]

 

[TrynaBeTurquoise]

10 hours ago, mandyjw said:

@TrynaBeTurquoise If Christianity was a big part of your childhood, enlightenment will heal, redeem and reveal the truth in it to you. As Nahm said, you may need to deviate from Jesus's teachings and study others in order to come back to them with fresh eyes. It's a really beautiful phenomenon to have epiphanies about the deeper meaning of pointers you heard all your life taught to you by confused people.

Part of your own gift of teaching is to make this shit so complicated. The logical mind wants to help understand truth on many levels, the trick is not allowing it to co-opt it and keep "truth" a secret from the heart. The depth and fullness of truth can only be understood by both the mind and heart in union, only then and there is it made direct and simple. If you grew up trying to love Jesus, and figuring out what accepting him in your heart really meant, it wouldn't seem like going off on a tangent to try to understand a verse like this. 

Thanks, I appreciate this a lot 

[Angelite]

14 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

@TrynaBeTurquoise

 

God is sitting right here! 

 

The key to spirituality is directness. The enemy of spirituality is indirectness. Cut out all the middlemen. They cannot truly help you.

But then you have psychedelic as your middlemen. 

God is everywhere. For everyone.

I have had this "no middlemen" since I was born. But without others (everything else), it would be impossible to know God. 

Only when you truly know everything, will you know God. 

[Ibn Sina]

I hope no one is misunderstanding me when I say Buddha, Jesus, Muhammed spoke bullshitry. I hope people are getting what I mean by that. I recognize all 3 of them as highly enlightened individuals.