Question about Jesus and Self-Bias

[Angelite]

26 minutes ago, Ibn Sina said:

I hope no one is misunderstanding me when I say Buddha, Jesus, Muhammed spoke bullshitry. I hope people are getting what I mean by that. I recognize all 3 of them as highly enlightened individuals.

You forgot that they all have their own scripture and tablets/scrolls. 

It's both. Walking scripture~

Edited August 30, 2019 by Angelite

[Ibn Sina]

16 minutes ago, Angelite said:

You forgot that they all have their own scripture and tablets/scrolls.

I  know that they have their own scripture tablets, scrolls. So what are you trying to say? What did I miss, please elaborate. Or may be you misunderstood me. What did you understand by what I said?

Actually, what I said has 2 meanings, one is a nondual meaning (which I am not interested in, and not intending) and the other is a dual meaning( which I was intending, and answering the OP's question with

Edited August 30, 2019 by Ibn Sina

[Nahm]

@Angelite I studied the Quran (been a minute), there’s wisdom there no doubt. 

1 hour ago, Angelite said:

Christ never resist to serve and worship Allah,nor do the angels, those nearest (to Allah). And those who refuse to worship Him and are arrogant, Allah will gather them all to Himself. 4:172

But those who believe and do righteous deeds, Allah will give their due rewards- and more, out of His bounty: but those who are disdainful and arrogant, He will punish with grievous penalty; nor will they find , besides Allah, any to protect or help them.  4:173

This passage seems to be coming from a misunderstanding of suffering & the Truth. 

I’d consider the parent child relationship as an analogy / example. One can threaten kids to believe and comply, and even use Allah and words like disdain, grievous, penalty, to get that job done. Another route is assisting kids to develop open minds, not believing, but learning to think for themselves, pointing & helping them to discover Allah for themselves.

What does the future of the nations of those two examples look like, when those kids grow up, in your opinion?

What is the implication, of power, in terms of honesty? 

What effect might each scenario have on someone?

 

[Matt8800]

18 hours ago, TrynaBeTurquoise said:

Some background about me as to why I'm asking this, if you care, I was indoctrinated from birth into a a christian fundamentalist cult Jehovahs Witnesses, and went to church or "meetings" in a congregation most of my life where we would study the bible and "preach its message" in public going from door to door, until I eventually had spiritual awakenings for myself, woke the hell up and got out when I was around 20 years old. So I have a quite the background in being exposed to fundamentalist biblical interpretations. But not so much in integrating what Jesus true message might have been relating to spirituality/non-duality. 

Leo has brought to light to me through his videos that Jesus was an enlightened figure, but I have trouble interpreting this quote of his relating to the notion self-bias to the human species, also the heaven/hell bit:

"Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell. 29 Are not two sparrows sold for a penny? Yet not one of them will fall to the ground outside your Father’s care. 30 And even the very hairs of your head are all numbered. 31 So don’t be afraid; you are worth more than many sparrows." -Matthew 10:28-30

Why is he putting humans above animals here in terms of worth? Is he speaking metaphorically here, or is this translation incorrect or something? Or like a low-level teaching that would resonate to who he was talking to here? Am looking for some clarity here and about Jesus and him being enlightened in general 

 

@TrynaBeTurquoise Sounds like that cult dogma still has you. Why does it matter what an old book said? Why are you picking that old book to worry about rather than other old books? The bible also says you should stone homosexuals.

Notice how you are not quoting the Quran. If you were born in the middle east, you would be worrying about a verse in that book. The geography of your birth has determined the dogma and fears that were imposed on you. Reject it!

Jesus was probably a wise Qabbalistic mystic but nobody knows what he said. There is literally no reason to believe the quotes in the bible are true. Even if it was, there are enlightened mystics that disagree on things according to their own regional dogma. Its written by multiple people that clearly cant get their stories straight to agree with each other. For those reasons, I disagree with any current importance and relevance Leo attributes to Jesus. There might be a few wise quotes but one can find wisdom in any book of nonsense if they dig long enough. People find one grain of truth, ignore the mountains of lies and deception and call it good. 

Keep the truth for yourself if you want and ignore all the bullshit. 

 

Edited August 30, 2019 by Matt8800

[mandyjw]

@Matt8800 So spirit guides or deities can come to you but not Jesus or the Holy Ghost? 

Christianity goes deep. All paths are valid. Intentions, thoughts and beliefs planted are like seeds that with the proper conditions can grow and bear fruit. 

[Matt8800]

1 hour ago, mandyjw said:

@Matt8800 So spirit guides or deities can come to you but not Jesus or the Holy Ghost? 

Christianity goes deep. All paths are valid. Intentions, thoughts and beliefs planted are like seeds that with the proper conditions can grow and bear fruit. 

@mandyjw If you see Jesus come and speak to you directly, that could be valid. I said that Jesus was most likely a powerful, enlightened Qabbalist mystic but that gives no validity to stories from other people.

For example, early Christians believed in reincarnation, which would make sense because that is what Kabbalah believes. The belief of reincarnation was banned at the council of Nicea by the early church. There are many more examples of manipulation of beliefs by the church. Would you really choose to believe the document that you know has been changed and manipulated as an instrument of control? Why?

Relying on what other people say he said is just hearsay and unreliable. A lot of people say a lot of nonsense. If Jesus is powerful, he can tell you himself (I believe his power and spirit does speak to people).

Edited August 30, 2019 by Matt8800

[mandyjw]

21 minutes ago, Matt8800 said:

@mandyjw If you see Jesus come and speak to you directly, that could be valid. I said that Jesus was most like a powerful, enlightened Qabbalist mystic but that gives no validity to stories from other people.

Relying on what other people say he said is just hearsay and unreliable. A lot of people say a lot of nonsense. If Jesus is powerful, he can tell you himself (I believe his power and spirit does speak to people).

I've never had any direct mystical experiences regarding Jesus however I've loved him most all my life. The more educated I became the more I realized that that love was foolish, how does one love a dead man anyway? Silly. Then when I woke up I saw how incredibly important it had been to my path to nonduality. And then I became not Jesus, but Mary Magdalene. 

Ah, love. It's both the path AND the destination. 

[Matt8800]

1 minute ago, mandyjw said:

I've never had any direct mystical experiences regarding Jesus however I've loved him most all my life. The more educated I became the more I realized that that love was foolish, how does one love a dead man anyway? Silly. Then when I woke up I saw how incredibly important it had been to my path to nonduality. And then I became not Jesus, but Mary Magdalene. 

Ah, love. It's both the path AND the destination. 

@mandyjw maybe you should seek some direct mystical experiences of Jesus. 

[Inliytened1]

@mandyjw newsflash - you ARE Jesus.  You are Infinity... meaning you are everything that is.  You are God.  This is Oneness.  

Of course as Mandy you are simply Mandy.  So from Mandy's perspective Jesus is a separate being. But don't forget that you have the ability to shift your consciousness (because you are consciousness) to God's perspective.  From that perspective you and Jesus are One. 

[TrynaBeTurquoise]

8 hours ago, Matt8800 said:

@TrynaBeTurquoise Sounds like that cult dogma still has you. Why does it matter what an old book said? Why are you picking that old book to worry about rather than other old books? The bible also says you should stone homosexuals.

Notice how you are not quoting the Quran. If you were born in the middle east, you would be worrying about a verse in that book. The geography of your birth has determined the dogma and fears that were imposed on you. Reject it!

Jesus was probably a wise Qabbalistic mystic but nobody knows what he said. There is literally no reason to believe the quotes in the bible are true. Even if it was, there are enlightened mystics that disagree on things according to their own regional dogma. Its written by multiple people that clearly cant get their stories straight to agree with each other. For those reasons, I disagree with any current importance and relevance Leo attributes to Jesus. There might be a few wise quotes but one can find wisdom in any book of nonsense if they dig long enough. People find one grain of truth, ignore the mountains of lies and deception and call it good. 

Keep the truth for yourself if you want and ignore all the bullshit. 

 

In not familiar with other-old books, but am familiar with Jesus. Let me clarify, I'm not at all "worried" about what this scripture is saying or what the bible says in general. I hardly ever think about Jesus, my old religion, or the bible. I know it is misinterpreted largely and says a bunch of ridiculous things. I was simply intrigued and had a question relating Jesus and non-duality since he was supposedly an enlightened figure.

Like @mandyjw said reframing old teachings that you were previously indoctrinated with and relating them to enlightenment and truth can be therapeutic and healing on its own, but you would have to have my life experience to understand

[Angelite]

@Ibn Sina @Nahm @Matt8800 @mandyjw @Inliytened1 @TrynaBeTurquoise

I love this..

For those who are not born into these lineage, or roots, have no rights to say anything about it. You don't know better than the ones who inherits this religion. 

Atheist to the left~

I love this couple's channel. 

Edited September 1, 2019 by Angelite

[Angelite]

 

On 8/31/2019 at 0:47 AM, Ibn Sina said:

I  know that they have their own scripture tablets, scrolls. So what are you trying to say? What did I miss, please elaborate. Or may be you misunderstood me. What did you understand by what I said?

Actually, what I said has 2 meanings, one is a nondual meaning (which I am not interested in, and not intending) and the other is a dual meaning( which I was intending, and answering the OP's question with

I think we're on a different reality. Don't mind me~ I don't get you. You don't get me. 

On 8/31/2019 at 1:10 AM, Nahm said:

@Angelite I studied the Quran (been a minute), there’s wisdom there no doubt. 

This passage seems to be coming from a misunderstanding of suffering & the Truth. 

I’d consider the parent child relationship as an analogy / example. One can threaten kids to believe and comply, and even use Allah and words like disdain, grievous, penalty, to get that job done. Another route is assisting kids to develop open minds, not believing, but learning to think for themselves, pointing & helping them to discover Allah for themselves.

What does the future of the nations of those two examples look like, when those kids grow up, in your opinion?

What is the implication, of power, in terms of honesty? 

What effect might each scenario have on someone?

 

What made you think those verses are a threat? Only if you don't embody the Quran as a whole 

Route 1;

That is a messed up way of interpreting those verses. 

It's easy to do good things. 

To make a sin is difficult. It will lead to all sorts of unnecessary sufferings. 

All the do's and don'ts have it's own beautiful wisdom that makes "the path" easier for those kids. 

 

Route 2 ;

What made you think the kids who was exposed to merits/demerits cannot develop an open mind? Thinking for themselves etc?

I think Islam in particular, guides you on a very foundational level only. And it leaves you open to have your own freedom, but within the basic foundational line. The rest is whatever. Whatever you wanna do, as long as it is not against the basic guideline. 

^This actually saved me a lot. When no one is higher than you except God and His messengers. 

On the other hand, it's what keeps me grounded. Or else, i'd be wayy over the roof~ ?

...

2. The whole of Reality, exist in the whole of Quran. I can guarantee that. 

 

On 8/31/2019 at 2:22 AM, Matt8800 said:

@TrynaBeTurquoise 

Notice how you are not quoting the Quran. If you were born in the middle east, you would be worrying about a verse in that book. The geography of your birth has determined the dogma and fears that were imposed on you. Reject it!

Jesus was probably a wise Qabbalistic mystic but nobody knows what he said. There is literally no reason to believe the quotes in the bible are true. Even if it was, there are enlightened mystics that disagree on things according to their own regional dogma. Its written by multiple people that clearly cant get their stories straight to agree with each other. For those reasons, I disagree with any current importance and relevance Leo attributes to Jesus. There might be a few wise quotes but one can find wisdom in any book of nonsense if they dig long enough. People find one grain of truth, ignore the mountains of lies and deception and call it good. 

Keep the truth for yourself if you want and ignore all the bullshit. 

Quran is for everyone who are open to it. It is the closure which contains every wisdom of the past scriptures. 

It's true that the bible aren't 100% intact. The Quran came to address that. Some are still true. Some(verses) have been hidden or changed from it's place. Some has lost it's actual meaning. Some are still preserved the way it really is. 

From muslims perspective, there are 3 kinds of people (who are using past scripture). 

1. Those who are not practicing.(coopting religion for devilry purposes)

2. The truthful one. (This people stay on the middle)

3. The pious one who submit to God and accept all prophets including Muhammad. 

Quote

 

The thing with following the Truth is, it will only benefit you. 

When you deny your Creator, you will be a slave to creations. 

@TrynaBeTurquoise what does the Christian church teache you? Is it you who don't understand? Or them who don't understand Jesus's teachings? 

Edited September 1, 2019 by Angelite

[Nahm]

56 minutes ago, Angelite said:

Or else, i'd be wayy over the roof~

See what that actually is. Don’t settle for the simple pleasures of ‘being right’. It’s dualistically fleeting and hollow. We both know this. You can work through that loss btw, this is your life. Up to you.

[Angelite]

38 minutes ago, Nahm said:

See what that actually is. Don’t settle for the simple pleasures of ‘being right’. It’s dualistically fleeting and hollow. We both know this. You can work through that loss btw, this is your life. Up to you.

No nevermind. It's not that I haven't tried. Haha

This grounding is a blessings❤

@Nahm I also learned a lot from others experiences.. and still see this as a blessings..

Actually everything is a blessings..

Edited September 1, 2019 by Angelite

[zeroISinfinity]

@Angelite There is no God outside of YOU.

Where do you think Allah might be or how does it look. It looks like exactly as What "you" perceive right now. This is Allah This is YOU. 

Actuality="PRESENT" =YOU. 

PRESENT OF GOD. knock knock 

See It's already done no effort required. 

 

Edited September 1, 2019 by zeroISinfinity

[Angelite]

@zeroISinfinity HELLO!

But I have a deeper understanding. So no. 

Edited September 1, 2019 by Angelite

[zeroISinfinity]

Just now, Angelite said:

@zeroISinfinity HELLO!

But I have a deeper understanding. So no. 

If Allah is all powerfull, omniPRESENT, all knowing, all Loving. 

Where it might BE? 

[Angelite]

4 minutes ago, zeroISinfinity said:

If Allah is all powerfull, omniPRESENT, all knowing, all Loving. 

Where it might BE? 

*sigh* Everywhere..

[zeroISinfinity]

2 minutes ago, Angelite said:

*sigh* Everywhere..

OK so lets explore your direct experience right now. 

Are You aware of entierty of it, Do you know it without any effort? 

[Nahm]

@Angelite I hear ya and I love ya, and you know where to find me, if you find me useful. ??♥️