Serious Question About Mindfulness Breathing Meditation

[SQAAD]

Ok so i have been practicing on & off mindfullness meditation for couple of years now & even had 2 mystical experiences while on it.

But NOW i am ready to seriously commit and do meditation till the day i die so i wanna be doing it PROPERLY.

 

So my technique is that i FOCUS on my breathing & then between the pauses of the breath i do nothing in particular.

Question #1: What should i do between the pauses of the breath?? I'm very CONFUSED about this. Some ppl say focus on the space but i don't know what that is supposed to mean.  Should i  focus on nothing? 

Or maybe i shouldn't even focus at all and JUST SURRENDER? After all i am already focusing on the breathing. So why should i keep focusing on the space? There is nothing even to focus on...

Question #2:  When i am focusing on the breathing is it better to FOCUS on the entire breathing (air entering nostrils, lungs & stomach) or is it better to just FOCUS on the air entering the nostrils and nothing else? Is it better to focus your awareness on as lil space as possible or not?

I need some help. This is very tricky stuff.

Thank you .

 

 

 

Edited August 29, 2019 by SQAAD

[Salvijus]

 

 

[inFlow]

Do yourself a favor and start doing yoga for the rest of your life. Meditation alone is really weak of a practice. Kriya yoga is way way more powerful

[SQAAD]

@inFlow Meditation is king for me BUT i wanna learn yoga in the future for sure.

[inFlow]

@SQAAD I started doing yoga and in two weeks with newbie techniques I gained more consciousness growth than meditation doing meditation for a couple of months. Actually even yogis are saying that meditation is shit. It's just letting your mind wonder off and trying to catch it. You need to spiritually cleanse your BODY which what meditation can't do. Of course your mind can be sharp from meditation, but your body wont be clear of energy blockages. So think for yourself what is more important. Don't leave your body behind, it also goes for the ride to wherever you go.

[peanutspathtotruth]

@inFlow That's a pretty simplistic view in my opinion. Mindfulness meditation done properly is powerful. It's a training for the mind, to make it sharp enough to really contemplate reality. Kriya Yoga might be a great practice, and I personally really want to get back to it eventually (only did it for a few weeks on&off), but to say "this is better than that" is just your bias. And there are more than enough mystics whom meditation took all the way to no self, even if there's much more. 

It's like a toolbox, you take what works for you and your lifestyle. Please don't make others feel as if your way is superior. Psychedelics, meditation, yoga, inquiry, contemplation - it's all powerful stuff. 

[inFlow]

@peanutspathtotruth Don't misunderstand opinion with genuine advice.

[peanutspathtotruth]

@inFlow Your advice is still your opinion, sorry to break it to you. I'm not saying you are wrong, you're just putting it like you had years of experience in both and that's not the case. Yes meditation alone won't get you far, but as a combo practice with something else it's super helpful.

@SQAAD Preferably focus on a rather small object, like the sensations at your nostrils or in your lower belly. It trains your ability to be very distinctive with your attention. I so to speak "look at" where the sensations of the in- and out-breath occur. In the pause, I look at the same place - which you could call space yes, space without any sensation in that moment. I hope that helps

I recently found myself guided to the book "The Mind Illuminated" by some fellow forum members here and it's the best mindfulness meditation explanation I've ever read. Highly recommended. Be sure to not only meditate, but expand your practice - do inquiry, contemplation, yoga, psychedelics, a combination of them, whatever suits you. 

[SQAAD]

@inFlow

7 hours ago, inFlow said:

@SQAAD I started doing yoga and in two weeks with newbie techniques I gained more consciousness growth than meditation doing meditation for a couple of months. Actually even yogis are saying that meditation is shit. It's just letting your mind wonder off and trying to catch it. You need to spiritually cleanse your BODY which what meditation can't do. Of course your mind can be sharp from meditation, but your body wont be clear of energy blockages. So think for yourself what is more important. Don't leave your body behind, it also goes for the ride to wherever you go.

Very interesting...

Where did you learn those newbie techniques? What resources do you use in order to learn yoga? 

My problem is that i don't know how to get started with yoga. Please send me some links & i will start doing yoga as well.

Edited August 29, 2019 by SQAAD

[inFlow]

@SQAAD I will spoil you with one of the books in Leo's book list on Kriya, but this one is foundational. It's "Kriya Secrets Revealed by J.C. Stevens" This is a technique book to learn how to do Kriya Yoga. Starts from the most basic of exercises and later it grows into more potent techniques once you master the starting ones. You will thank yourself for starting to do Yoga, I didn't believe it myself, but now I'am very serious about the benefits that yoga brings, they are just outstanding.

The hard part for you, if you buy this book, will be starting a habit for doing Kriya yoga. You will resist for a bit, but if you do yoga I guarantee in two weeks you will notice real growth in your base line of awareness. Yoga helped me reach and MAINTAIN permanent non-dual state of awareness. I was also skeptical at first about the whole Yoga thing, but wow is it powerful, no wonder Leo talked about it, he only shares the strongest consciousness practices.

Also keep doing your meditation, Yoga will even supercharge it!

[SQAAD]

@inFlow

16 hours ago, inFlow said:

 

The hard part for you, if you buy this book, will be starting a habit for doing Kriya yoga. You will resist for a bit, but if you do yoga I guarantee in two weeks you will notice real growth in your base line of awareness. Yoga helped me reach and MAINTAIN permanent non-dual state of awareness. I was also skeptical at first about the whole Yoga thing, but wow is it powerful, no wonder Leo talked about it, he only shares the strongest consciousness practices.

Also keep doing your meditation, Yoga will even supercharge it!

Man this is very inspiring to hear & i definetely will start yoga in the future. I really wanna find out what it's all about.

I just feel resistance because of fear not being able to learn proper yoga from a book. But i will just do it...

[inFlow]

@SQAAD There is a funny thing about yoga which you will read and probably experience yourself. The book mentions that sometimes your inner guru will guide you through the practices. And believe me the inner guru comes! On your best days you might sit, do the excercise and feel that some kind of intuition is guiding you through the excercise, showing you how to do it, and also don't ressist this let the guru do its thing. It will control your body, change the technique in the best way for you. Kinda feels like God is taking control of your body and showing you how to do yoga, the inner guru knows whats best for you.

I had this experience, my wife also had some inner guru lessons, and I saw it in action on my wife, once I saw her doing something unordinary I was like "please just let it guide you and don't ressist it" when she was done I asked "were you in control?" She answered "YES wtf was that" and I instantly aknowledged that she had been in the zone where this inner guru takes power.

Its kinda ridiculious to hear this, once I read it I was like ok kinda get the idea that I do how I wanna do it, but once it happens you just know that this is the time to let go and let it guide you.

But the guru doesnt come everyday. Once in a while, but the first time that can come up quickly to let you know that it is with you. Its a proccess of trial and error, I still keep perfecting my forms everyday. Keep at it and you will learn on your own.

[ardacigin]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

9

On 8/29/2019 at 6:15 AM, SQAAD said:

Question #1: What should i do between the pauses of the breath?? I'm very CONFUSED about this. Some ppl say focus on the space but i don't know what that is supposed to mean.  Should i  focus on nothing? 

Or maybe i shouldn't even focus at all and JUST SURRENDER? After all i am already focusing on the breathing. So why should i keep focusing on the space? There is nothing even to focus on...

Question #2:  When i am focusing on the breathing is it better to FOCUS on the entire breathing (air entering nostrils, lungs & stomach) or is it better to just FOCUS on the air entering the nostrils and nothing else? Is it better to focus your awareness on as lil space as possible or not?

Just read 'The Mınd Illuminated' by John Yates. It will answer all your questions about breath practice.

Also short answer is: You need to first develop more stable attention by focusing on the tip of the nose ONLY. Don't move around too much without developing awareness.

Then you should use awareness to simultaneously attend to external sounds, sights and mental formations AS you are focusing on the breath at the tip of the nose. You shouldn't let the attention move back and forth. Attention is on the breath. Awareness is on the rest of the sensory experience. AT THE SAME TIME.

For more information, read TMI.

Hope this help.

[SQAAD]

7 hours ago, ardacigin said:

 

Then you should use awareness to simultaneously attend to external sounds, sights and mental formations AS you are focusing on the breath at the tip of the nose. You shouldn't let the attention move back and forth. Attention is on the breath. Awareness is on the rest of the sensory experience. AT THE SAME TIME.

For more information, read TMI.

Hope this help.

I don't get it. You make a dinstinction  between awareness & focus.

How can i be aware only of the tip of the nose & at the same time be aware of the rest of the sensory experience? It doesn't compute to me.

[inFlow]

@SQAAD you have to learn this. There are exercises in Kriya yoga which does that. This is only developed. For example you can focus lets say on the 3rd eye, meanwhile you are still feeling/noticing/are-being-aware-of sensations in your body. Like the inner voice, breathing, feeling presure on your but, etc. But you still keep FULL focus on the 3rd eye. It's hard to do at first, but with practice you learn it.

Also it's hard to understand this concept even. But it's explainable.

[SQAAD]

1 hour ago, inFlow said:

@SQAAD you have to learn this. There are exercises in Kriya yoga which does that. This is only developed. For example you can focus lets say on the 3rd eye, meanwhile you are still feeling/noticing/are-being-aware-of sensations in your body. Like the inner voice, breathing, feeling presure on your but, etc. But you still keep FULL focus on the 3rd eye. It's hard to do at first, but with practice you learn it.

Also it's hard to understand this concept even. But it's explainable.

What is the logic behind all of this?

Why not just focus on a single point or just focus on the entire sensation of your body?

[inFlow]

@SQAAD there is a difference between the focusing point and awareness. You just see is as the same here, but there is a difference. I do believe the "TMI" book that @ardacigin has recommended for you talks about this and then you understand what the hell are we talking about. I understand why you see awareness and focus as the same, but this is next level stuff my friend.

Google "Om Japa Chakras" maybe you will find some info about it and you could understand it more, its a bit tricky at first, but once you grasp it you will be a littlw bit amazed.

[ardacigin]

16 hours ago, SQAAD said:

I don't get it. You make a dinstinction  between awareness & focus.

How can i be aware only of the tip of the nose & at the same time be aware of the rest of the sensory experience? It doesn't compute to me.

Attention and awareness are distinct ways of knowing in the mind. This is the same terminology Shinzen uses in different words: concentration (attention) and sensory clarity (awareness). 

Both Culadasa and Shinzen makes the same distinction but Culadasa emphasizes the importance of utilizing these 2 ways of knowing AT THE SAME TIME for deep mindfulness development. His techniques revolve around the delicate balance of these skills. Shinzen's noting techniques on the other hand eventually expect you to understand this exact same thing experientially without explicitly telling you what to do or how to do it.

That is why I find Culadasa's explanation clearer. Again, read TMI for deeper understanding. Realize that VERY FEW books and teachers succeed to make this distinction to this degree that Culadasa does in his teachings. This one practice transformed my own practice and enabled to shave off years of frustration on the contemplative path.

[inFlow]

@ardacigin True, its difficult even to distinguish focus from awareness, because people 99% of the time think that they are the same and making a separation between them sounds stupid, but when it comes to the practice, when you do it, it makes a huge difference.

[Consilience]

On 8/29/2019 at 0:13 AM, inFlow said:

Do yourself a favor and start doing yoga for the rest of your life. Meditation alone is really weak of a practice. Kriya yoga is way way more powerful

Unfocused meditation is weak. Cultivating concentration ability is where meditation starts to become extremely effective