Alex Jones on Joe Rogan. Wtf just happened?

[Forestluv]

3 hours ago, whoareyou said:

This is not the case of false equivalency. It is the case of distorted perception. If you would erase everything you "think" you know about him, and just watch his uncut interviews, or uncut footages, and try to see him for who he is without self-bias - you would see that he is not mentally ill. The self-bias runs very deep and this is a good example.

The statement "It's ironic that you react the same way the people who you call devils do." is highly nuanced. The key term that orients the view is "same". Assumptions about "same" and "different" can blind a person to seeing false equivalencies. A false equivalency manifests when a person creates an equivalency and believes it to be objectively and universally true. They are unaware of another perspective, or realm, in which that equivalency is false. You perceive that Leo is reacting the same way the people who Leo calls devils do. You see that sameness as an equivalency that is objective and universally true. I am not saying that perspective is wrong. What i am saying is that by assuming sameness, one contracts themself into that sameness. If all one can see is Sameness, they will not be able to see Difference. In other words, if all one can see is an equivalency, they will not be able to see the false equivalency. Attachment/Identification to an equivalency will make it much harder to transcend and expand beyond it. Your statement is both right and wrong, yet you seem to be attached/identified to the rightness and cannot see the wrongness. . . Judging the sameness carries more relevance than the difference is also relative, yet one must be able to see both the sameness and difference to make this judgement. For example, if you saw two antique cups as being the same you would not be able to assign relative value to one tea cup over the other, because you don't see any differences between the tea cups. If you said "the two tea cups are the same" and I told you "that is a false equivalency", you wold disagree because all you can see is sameness and are unaware of difference. . . Leo did a good job explaining this in his "Sameness and Difference" video.

[whoareyou]

10 hours ago, Serotoninluv said:

The statement "It's ironic that you react the same way the people who you call devils do." is highly nuanced. The key term that orients the view is "same". Assumptions about "same" and "different" can blind a person to seeing false equivalencies. A false equivalency manifests when a person creates an equivalency and believes it to be objectively and universally true. They are unaware of another perspective, or realm, in which that equivalency is false. You perceive that Leo is reacting the same way the people who Leo calls devils do. You see that sameness as an equivalency that is objective and universally true. I am not saying that perspective is wrong. What i am saying is that by assuming sameness, one contracts themself into that sameness. If all one can see is Sameness, they will not be able to see Difference. In other words, if all one can see is an equivalency, they will not be able to see the false equivalency. Attachment/Identification to an equivalency will make it much harder to transcend and expand beyond it. Your statement is both right and wrong, yet you seem to be attached/identified to the rightness and cannot see the wrongness. . . Judging the sameness carries more relevance than the difference is also relative, yet one must be able to see both the sameness and difference to make this judgement. For example, if you saw two antique cups as being the same you would not be able to assign relative value to one tea cup over the other, because you don't see any differences between the tea cups. If you said "the two tea cups are the same" and I told you "that is a false equivalency", you wold disagree because all you can see is sameness and are unaware of difference. . . Leo did a good job explaining this in his "Sameness and Difference" video.

You are way overthinking and over analyzing this. It is far more simple. The ego-mechanism is the same and works the same way  for every human.

Whenever I have confronted Leo or have seen others confront him, he has reacted the exact same way that the people who he calls devils do. He either defends his position till the end with many justifications, or either totally ignores you. And he is 100% convinced that he is right - that I already know no matter what anyone says, they would not even make him consider changing his mind. (Based from my observation, his biggest self-bias lies in his political views. )

I never seen him say (on this forum):

1) I don't know, I might actually be wrong

2) I will re-consider my position

When I go back and look at my own behavior, I have done the same and still do to this day. Everyone does.

 

Edited August 30, 2019 by whoareyou

[Forestluv]

6 hours ago, whoareyou said:

You are way overthinking and over analyzing this. It is far more simple. The ego-mechanism is the same and works the same way  for every human.

Whenever I have confronted Leo or have seen others confront him, he has reacted the exact same way that the people who he calls devils do. He either defends his position till the end with many justifications, or either totally ignores you. And he is 100% convinced that he is right - that I already know no matter what anyone says, they would not even make him consider changing his mind. (Based from my observation, his biggest self-bias lies in his political views. )

I never seen him say (on this forum):

1) I don't know, I might actually be wrong

2) I will re-consider my position

When I go back and look at my own behavior, I have done the same and still do to this day. Everyone does.

 

I understand your perspective. As you said, it is very simple. I am not disagreeing with you and I'm not saying you are wrong. I'm saying there is something you are not seeing. This would not invalidate your perspective. It's not an "either / or" scenario.

[TrynaBeTurquoise]

Really missing Paul Stamets on Joe Rogan, I listened to that podcast so many times. 

I feel like Joe just finds Alex's Jones rhetoric mentally stimulating over other potentially boring guests, even though what he's saying is so misguided. 

Has Joe ever had a guest talk about spirituality/non-duality without dismissing them as woo-woo? Joe is so open minded but still so painfully closed minded at the same time. 

Like this mma coach he had on who was introducing new ideas to him about the philosophy of science and where science falls short, and he was just in his panties so offended that negative things were being said about science 

 

[SerpaeTetra]

14 hours ago, whoareyou said:

You are way overthinking and over analyzing this. It is far more simple. The ego-mechanism is the same and works the same way  for every human.

Whenever I have confronted Leo or have seen others confront him, he has reacted the exact same way that the people who he calls devils do. He either defends his position till the end with many justifications, or either totally ignores you. And he is 100% convinced that he is right - that I already know no matter what anyone says, they would not even make him consider changing his mind. (Based from my observation, his biggest self-bias lies in his political views. )

I never seen him say (on this forum):

1) I don't know, I might actually be wrong

2) I will re-consider my position

When I go back and look at my own behavior, I have done the same and still do to this day. Everyone does.

 

Just don't give him the ultimate authority on everything.  Realize that he provides a lot of great quality teachings that you can grow from, but he is far from perfect and he isn't going to admit he is wrong very often.  Take on his good qualities, and let the other ones go.  If you can brush off the stuff that bothers you a bit, you will be much stronger.

[Raze]

Leo should go on Joe Rogan

[pluto]

On 8/29/2019 at 1:08 PM, Leo Gura said:

Just because you have a mentally ill friend doesn't mean you platform him to your viewers. It's irresponsible to platform such a person to millions of viewers as though it's all just in good fun.

It's like yeah, I'm good friends with Hitler, so let me give him my platform.

Quite judgmental coming from someone who claims to be so intelligent. You have no authority to make videos on Love and Enlightenment. Those who follow you are going to end up in the same loops of delusion you've got yourself into. White version of Carbonation TV.

 

[Leo Gura]

1 hour ago, pluto said:

You have no authority to make videos on Love and Enlightenment.

Lol

You guys sure do make up some creative attacks on me.

You might as well be throwing water balloons at the ocean.

[CreamCat]

On 8/29/2019 at 11:06 PM, Leo Gura said:

@Rilles Devilry disorder

I have that disorder, too.

[CreamCat]

On 8/29/2019 at 10:03 PM, Leo Gura said:

No, I'm just aware he's mentally ill.

I read a wikipedia article about Alex Jones. He has advocated unfounded conspiracy theories. He certainly has a lot of fears.

I think it's better to let him talk than to try to silence him. Open dialogues are better than hidden agendas.

People learn from mistakes of others.

Edited August 31, 2019 by CreamCat

[pluto]

@Keyhole

Its what tends to happen when you do too much psychedelics and focus entirely on the third eye and get caught up in mental/egoic attachments that consume you. These people become stuck in loops in which keeps them in an astral or semi-enlightened state(a very bad place to be caught up in) in which they have seen truth but are not energetically(mental/emotional/spiritually) aligned thus cannot embody truth harmoniously and not fit to express and guide others.

They are not monks, not shamans, not sages or yogis that spend their whole lives since young mastering these terrains as they usually have had guidance from their mentors who usually walked the same path, but these days you have all these wannabe gurus online that have a few mystical experiences and project as if they are all god-knowing.

They have "seen" something and had access to some knowing, but knowing and understanding are to completely different things and usually understand very little because they are blinded by seeing/knowing so much, more than their physical minds can process and comprehend in the time given in which blinds them thus blinds their followers and creates loops within loops of delusions and can lead many into the same states that most will not be able to get out of.

It can take years, if not decades to free yourself from these "in-between" states. 

Its like being stuck in a semi-psychedelic state for years, many people have gone insane from this because they don't have the proper training and guidance from someone like a shaman who has been trained since a child to work and master these things. I see many people on the forums who are getting into these very dark traps because they are blindly following people like Leo doing 5-Meo and things which are far beyond them.

You can't shortcut your way to being enlightened. Spirituality are not something an Enlightened being practices, it is simply life itself for them.

So all these so called "woke" people these days are still barely scratching the surface and understand very little regardless of how much they think they know and should really step back and spend 80-90% of the time in solitude/silence and find inner stillness to enlighten the mind so the spirit can be freed because even among the conscious communities i see 99% of them are simply awakening babies and nowhere near enlightened let alone masters.

It disturbs me to see this because i know where you can end up and people with so much followers and power should be most wise before they start to guide and lead others. Sure, maybe they will be able to get out of their own mess one day, but what about the rest of the followers?

Most won't even know until its too late.

I dislike the fact that i always have to be the one to stand up and say something, everyone else seems to blindly swallow everything and turn their heads. I wont always be here so best take care of yourselves and be wise before its too late.

A guru needs to be more in tune with his heart and spirit than his head and he must first be fully healed and vibrationally aligned before he/she should be allowed to guide others and or give advice. People like Mooji, Eckhart Tolle, Dalai Lama are good examples of modern Enlightened beings who are healed and balanced themselves thus should provide guidance and assistance.

But these youtubers who do psychedelics and some spiritual practice are not fit to be teachers of self-actualization and especially spirituality as they have yet to truly know or be themselves. The Enlightened being lives in tune with spirit and the spiritual heart and will show genuine expressions like compassion, love, kindness, non-judgment, patience, silence, stillness..

These are the traits of an enlightened being that can actually help and guide you properly, not someone who is caught up in the mental, becomes triggered by posts, judges others, argues, defends and yet projects a know it all attitude.

I speak from direct experience, i was a victim to these self-deluding loops and i am still healing from them, don't seek enlightenment unless you are absolutely ready to give up everything you know and live by and start new.

 

 

 

 

Edited August 31, 2019 by pluto

[pluto]

32 minutes ago, Keyhole said:

@pluto Are you addressing Leo, me or Nature Boy with this?

http://maryshutan.com/what-is-a-top-down-awakening/

Sounds like this ^

Leo, Nature boy and many youtubers and many people that use these forums tbh.. Its becoming pathetic yet they are guiding others to things like Love and Enlightenment which they clearly do not embody or truly understand yet themselves. I could also lead thousands of people but i am wise enough to know that i know better. Until one is fully aligned and in tune with spirit, one has no right to do so on such a large scale as some of these people are doing.

Personally assisting others is okay and small scale stuff, but if you have thousands of followers. You must be very wise and fully embody and represent the healed/enlightened sate yourself before trying to guide or lead others.

Good link explains more of what i am explaining in a different way. You should make a topic and post all of it. Thanks.

 

Edited August 31, 2019 by pluto

[Aeris]

3 hours ago, pluto said:

@Keyhole

Its what tends to happen when you do too much psychedelics and focus entirely on the third eye and get caught up in mental/egoic attachments that consume you. These people become stuck in loops in which keeps them in an astral or semi-enlightened state(a very bad place to be caught up in) in which they have seen truth but are not energetically(mental/emotional/spiritually) aligned thus cannot embody truth harmoniously and not fit to express and guide others.

They are not monks, not shamans, not sages or yogis that spend their whole lives since young mastering these terrains as they usually have had guidance from their mentors who usually walked the same path, but these days you have all these wannabe gurus online that have a few mystical experiences and project as if they are all god-knowing.

They have "seen" something and had access to some knowing, but knowing and understanding are to completely different things and usually understand very little because they are blinded by seeing/knowing so much, more than their physical minds can process and comprehend in the time given in which blinds them thus blinds their followers and creates loops within loops of delusions and can lead many into the same states that most will not be able to get out of.

It can take years, if not decades to free yourself from these "in-between" states. 

Its like being stuck in a semi-psychedelic state for years, many people have gone insane from this because they don't have the proper training and guidance from someone like a shaman who has been trained since a child to work and master these things. I see many people on the forums who are getting into these very dark traps because they are blindly following people like Leo doing 5-Meo and things which are far beyond them.

You can't shortcut your way to being enlightened. Spirituality are not something an Enlightened being practices, it is simply life itself for them.

So all these so called "woke" people these days are still barely scratching the surface and understand very little regardless of how much they think they know and should really step back and spend 80-90% of the time in solitude/silence and find inner stillness to enlighten the mind so the spirit can be freed because even among the conscious communities i see 99% of them are simply awakening babies and nowhere near enlightened let alone masters.

It disturbs me to see this because i know where you can end up and people with so much followers and power should be most wise before they start to guide and lead others. Sure, maybe they will be able to get out of their own mess one day, but what about the rest of the followers?

Most won't even know until its too late.

I dislike the fact that i always have to be the one to stand up and say something, everyone else seems to blindly swallow everything and turn their heads. I wont always be here so best take care of yourselves and be wise before its too late.

A guru needs to be more in tune with his heart and spirit than his head and he must first be fully healed and vibrationally aligned before he/she should be allowed to guide others and or give advice. People like Mooji, Eckhart Tolle, Dalai Lama are good examples of modern Enlightened beings who are healed and balanced themselves thus should provide guidance and assistance.

But these youtubers who do psychedelics and some spiritual practice are not fit to be teachers of self-actualization and especially spirituality as they have yet to truly know or be themselves. The Enlightened being lives in tune with spirit and the spiritual heart and will show genuine expressions like compassion, love, kindness, non-judgment, patience, silence, stillness..

These are the traits of an enlightened being that can actually help and guide you properly, not someone who is caught up in the mental, becomes triggered by posts, judges others, argues, defends and yet projects a know it all attitude.

I speak from direct experience, i was a victim to these self-deluding loops and i am still healing from them, don't seek enlightenment unless you are absolutely ready to give up everything you know and live by and start new.

 

 

 

 

You're deluded. An enlightened master know that all talks and words are non existant..like non existent like for Real they are cloud in your head. Like litteraly. Get it. All is interprétation. All is interprétation. Do I need to work on 10 sentences ?

I m happy to come from biologic and computer understanding.

The 'truth' is not real there is no higher plane. And all mystical exclusive experience could be self inflicted psychosis.

The human mind doesn't want to know that all he is is a trickster machine. Buying another Map everyday.

Even big Big trip experience are the power of our own imagination ( réflection of our beliefs system )

[Commodent]

@pluto Good point. Whenever I listen to Leo I can notice my heart closing towards myself. I notice myself becoming more neurotic and ungrounded. My gut feel is telling me to stay far, far away from Leo, but at the same time he sends the message that you cannot trust your instincts. Because it's egoic and self-deceptive. So which one should I listen to? I have an inkling which one...

He definitely has issues with grounding. And he's encouraging that same unbalanced energy flow in others, very powerfully. Just by talking.

I'd like to distinguish between the intellectual content and the emotional content of his videos. The intellectual content is, at times, illuminating. The emotional content, however, is absolutely abysmal and pretty much gives you the message that you're a naive idiot who has no clue, whose judgment cannot be trusted. What a terrible message to send, and utterly false. There's so much rage behind his words, and one can only speculate where it comes from.

I only need one look to determine whether someone is dissociated or connected to their true selves. Unfortunately Leo does not pass the test, not even close. Honestly, I've never seen anyone with as thick defense mechanisms as Leo. He's totally invulnerable. And it's not a healthy defense, as in having good and healthy boundaries. It's a dissociative defense which allows him to treat other people like shit. Because by denying the hurt in himself, like he obviously does, he can deny the hurt in others. Even those you mentioned, Mooji, Eckhart Tolle and Dalai Lama, does to me seem very dissociated and disconnected. They represent the fantasy of what an enlightened being looks like.

To quote the holy man himself, Jesus Christ:

"If anyone comes to me and does not hate father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters--yes, even their own life--such a person cannot be my disciple."

While I'm at it, I have noticed that he does rarely ever speak from direct experience. Maybe <1% of his content is. The rest is just increasingly elaborate abstractions. Which makes his content notoriously unrelatable, repetitive and boring. The same could even be said about his most basic videos. Whenever he talks psychology, it's a jumbled mess. Speaking from direct experience is honestly quite hard when you're only connected to a small fragment of it. And when you have to make 2 hr long videos every damn time.

If anyone decides to disagree with me, just know that your disagreement is inherently self-deceptive and is there to ensure your own survival. So don't disagree with me, alright? I'm just messing with you. Notice how hard it is do distinguish Leo's teachings from what is actually a joke. You can disagree with me all you want, even ban me if you'd like. Because I have an inkling this post might be ban-worthy.

He's pulling people down, like I allowed myself to be pulled down. He doesn't know it, and neither does his followers. That's what bothers me. I'm not gonna stop people from going this path, however, as I did indeed learn something valuable from it. Just don't get surprised if you end up as an ungrounded mess, or feel that the unbalanced dynamic is getting reinforced.

He has said that he ultimately wants people to think for themselves and "leave the nest". But notice how actively he undermines that from coming into reality. You guys really need to trust yourself, and not Leo.

[studentofthegame]

@Commodent there’s a lad on this board who has been playing around with halluciogenic drugs and he hasn’t been able to sleep for 3 weeks and can feel his body rattling. He might have neurological damage but refuses to seek medical attention because he ‘doesn’t trust doctors’. Instead he trusts the advice of people on a message board, indentities and credentials of whom he can’t possibly verify.

That, for me, sums up the folly of much of the approach to this ‘enlightenment’ stuff. It strikes me as people trying to run before they can walk, accessing 200 watts of power when they are a 60 watt bulb. 

[Guest SirVladimir]

11 hours ago, pluto said:

@Keyhole

Its what tends to happen when you do too much psychedelics and focus entirely on the third eye and get caught up in mental/egoic attachments that consume you. These people become stuck in loops in which keeps them in an astral or semi-enlightened state(a very bad place to be caught up in) in which they have seen truth but are not energetically(mental/emotional/spiritually) aligned thus cannot embody truth harmoniously and not fit to express and guide others.

They are not monks, not shamans, not sages or yogis that spend their whole lives since young mastering these terrains as they usually have had guidance from their mentors who usually walked the same path, but these days you have all these wannabe gurus online that have a few mystical experiences and project as if they are all god-knowing.

They have "seen" something and had access to some knowing, but knowing and understanding are to completely different things and usually understand very little because they are blinded by seeing/knowing so much, more than their physical minds can process and comprehend in the time given in which blinds them thus blinds their followers and creates loops within loops of delusions and can lead many into the same states that most will not be able to get out of.

It can take years, if not decades to free yourself from these "in-between" states. 

Its like being stuck in a semi-psychedelic state for years, many people have gone insane from this because they don't have the proper training and guidance from someone like a shaman who has been trained since a child to work and master these things. I see many people on the forums who are getting into these very dark traps because they are blindly following people like Leo doing 5-Meo and things which are far beyond them.

You can't shortcut your way to being enlightened. Spirituality are not something an Enlightened being practices, it is simply life itself for them.

So all these so called "woke" people these days are still barely scratching the surface and understand very little regardless of how much they think they know and should really step back and spend 80-90% of the time in solitude/silence and find inner stillness to enlighten the mind so the spirit can be freed because even among the conscious communities i see 99% of them are simply awakening babies and nowhere near enlightened let alone masters.

It disturbs me to see this because i know where you can end up and people with so much followers and power should be most wise before they start to guide and lead others. Sure, maybe they will be able to get out of their own mess one day, but what about the rest of the followers?

Most won't even know until its too late.

I dislike the fact that i always have to be the one to stand up and say something, everyone else seems to blindly swallow everything and turn their heads. I wont always be here so best take care of yourselves and be wise before its too late.

A guru needs to be more in tune with his heart and spirit than his head and he must first be fully healed and vibrationally aligned before he/she should be allowed to guide others and or give advice. People like Mooji, Eckhart Tolle, Dalai Lama are good examples of modern Enlightened beings who are healed and balanced themselves thus should provide guidance and assistance.

But these youtubers who do psychedelics and some spiritual practice are not fit to be teachers of self-actualization and especially spirituality as they have yet to truly know or be themselves. The Enlightened being lives in tune with spirit and the spiritual heart and will show genuine expressions like compassion, love, kindness, non-judgment, patience, silence, stillness..

These are the traits of an enlightened being that can actually help and guide you properly, not someone who is caught up in the mental, becomes triggered by posts, judges others, argues, defends and yet projects a know it all attitude.

I speak from direct experience, i was a victim to these self-deluding loops and i am still healing from them, don't seek enlightenment unless you are absolutely ready to give up everything you know and live by and start new.

 

 

 

 

Cool story, bro. Are you enlightened?

[Commodent]

1 hour ago, studentofthegame said:

@Commodent there’s a lad on this board who has been playing around with halluciogenic drugs and he hasn’t been able to sleep for 3 weeks and can feel his body rattling. He might have neurological damage but refuses to seek medical attention because he ‘doesn’t trust doctors’. Instead he trusts the advice of people on a message board, indentities and credentials of whom he can’t possibly verify.

That, for me, sums up the folly of much of the approach to this ‘enlightenment’ stuff. It strikes me as people trying to run before they can walk, accessing 200 watts of power when they are a 60 watt bulb. 

Yes, I saw that too. Not good. From what I've gathered psychedelics are very powerful and should be approached with caution. I remember there was this guy on YouTube, Rali (Naked Reality), who suffered neurological damage due to mixing two psychedelic substances. He said he was on verge of death.

[pluto]

@Commodent Couldn't of said it better myself.

These people need to get their asses off the computers and gadgets and actually go outside in nature and witness the true depths of what they are trying to embody and understand. You will never reach enlightenment the way that these people are teaching because they, like you said, are far from enlightenment themselves. They severely lack depth of directness.

And i completely agree with what you said about Jesus but when i mentioned Mooji and them, i stated "modern" as Jesus, Buddha and other True Enlightened Masters ain't around, but these guys are doing pretty good if you ask me, they represent a very high and natural vibration which is better for the collective than 99.9% of people are doing so one must respect them for that.

I know there are many on the forums who also agree with us about Leo and similar situations but prefer to remain quiet and i understand that most of the time silence is the best answer but these are one of those times when speaking up is important than remaining silent.

I already have much more respect for you than most people on this forum for doing so. Keep it up! there's not many like us.

Its easy to preach, that's not impressive, what's impressive is the one that walks and leads by example.

Edited September 1, 2019 by pluto

[tsuki]

@pluto Actually, it's pretty fascinating to watch the forum develop collectively and observe the user activity as it changes. As the environment becomes more hospitable to certain frequencies, various impressive individuals stop being silent and speak up. 

That includes you, pluto ❤️

Edited September 1, 2019 by tsuki

[pluto]

5 minutes ago, tsuki said:

@pluto Actually, it's pretty fascinating to watch the forum develop collectively and observe the user activity as it changes. As the environment becomes more hospitable to certain frequencies, various impressive individuals stop being silent and speak up. 

That includes you, pluto ❤️

Thank you, I may not always be the best example of what i speak and my true nature but i know who and what i am and sometimes i feel its necessary. I used to delete posts like this because eventually i realize i know better and most probably wont understand anyway but this time i feel people need to read/see things things.

They may not agree with the behaviour, but the words speak the truth. I believe truth is more important than anything else.

Namaste <3

Edited September 1, 2019 by pluto