Is there not even a tiny bit of free will?

[Schahin]

I was asking myself this today, our lives are in accordance to gods will but ultimately that is our will. 

And if there is only god then no natter what happens is divine, so how is gods will if he/we/me is the only one here and no matter what I do is divine, nothing opposes me so that it becomes undivine. 

So how is gods will? Is it not more that we as god, but incarnated into a human experience, have freedom and autonony at least in a tiny percentage? 

[Inliytened1]

@Schahin Look at it like this.  You as God are pure Being - formless.  You are nothing.  But as Infinity you contain all possibilities in a raw state of potential.   

So as the finite you, you are one of those possibilites.  God is exploring a particular possibility as you.  So as you - any decision you make plays out a particular possiblity - that before was just in a state of isness or pure potential.  You are exploring a particular possiblity as you make your way through life.  If you choose to go left - that possiblity then plays out.  If you choose to go right, rather - then that one plays out and the other remains as isness.

Think of it like a choose your own adventure book where all outcomes are already predetermined but you get to play out anyone you want.  Ultimately the Big You will play out all of them to Infinity.

 

Edited August 28, 2019 by Inliytened1

[Nahm]

@Schahin

‘Free will’ is only a thought.  ‘No free will’ is only a thought. They are opposite thoughts, but they are just thoughts. That they are opposite thoughts, is really just another thought. These thoughts, are about you. About wether you have free will or not. A thought about you, can’t be true. Since you’re the awareness of the thoughts, and you, awareness, do not begin nor end, do not come nor go. There are no dualities, no axioms, for awareness - you. Awareness is limitless, infinite (you). But the thoughts you are aware of are two-ness, duality, relative to each other. So no thought can do you justice.  

So you can just pick a thought, if you want, and also, you don’t even have to pick one. You could just say, “oh, I see, they’re just thoughts. Ok. That’s good to know”. 

You’re already doing whatever the heck you want. ?? Best to get on purpose, with what you want. Create the life you want. But only if you want to. 

[Michael Paul]

@Schahin There are impersonal levels of God’s consciousness that have predetermined literally every event in existence, at least in our universe and potentially just up until a certain point in the cosmic evolution.

[Key Elements]

Nope, we don't have freewill. I was trying to explain it in this thread that we have what's called "power of choice." But, that's a "power." It's not freewill. Another example is, a spirit who has achieved nirvana could go into any realms, any time, and could be one with God, but that's not freewill. It's a "power of choice." Remember, God is not a realm (illusion). We are. All things except God are realms. And, no, God doesn't have freewill. It's just pure consciousness. Freewill doesn't exist.

[Aeris]

there is the power to have free will in a limited set of pre deterministic settings

[Forestluv]

"Is there not even a tiny bit of free will?"

This reminds me of holding an empty tube of toothpaste and trying my darndest to squeeze out just a tiny bit of toothpaste.

[Schahin]

At the end it means we humans have absolutely no control, it is always in our subconscious that everything is being done every single act, even when I itch my nose (ridiculous example but it is in order to reassure what I mean) it is an act of super highly conscious intelligent act. 

At the end I could not have not itched my nose, itching my nose was the only thing possible in that moment because God (my subconscious) wanted it. 

Another example, I just walk down the street get hit by a car and then will be disabled in some form, this is gods will, could it in any way have happened that I had not been hit by the car? Or does gods will mean that it had to happen. 

Thats where I am asking, is there no single tiny bit of free will that the human has? Kind of like. Human automony as god incarnate and free. 

 

Ramana Maharashi said that everything into the little details is predetermined, which is something I could read here, is not so embraced on the forum. Not Ramana but the predetermination. Ramana, having read about his life, pretty soon came to know that this reality does not exist and that there is no doer, and he advicated self inquiry as the way to go to find out

Edited August 28, 2019 by Schahin

[Shadowraix]

It's a paradox if you must frame it into the model of free will. It depends how much line drawing you do. What is it that's doing things and how is that separate from you? And what separates your will from God's? 

Edited August 28, 2019 by Shadowraix

[Jkris]

@Schahin

Dont reduce equate God to concious mind,subconcious mind etc.

God is the totality of all creations.

Entire universe is god.God alone exists.What ever you see hear touch is god.

What it means there is no free will ?

As a finite form body you are born - did you had any choice to take this birth as a human body male to a particular parents in a particular location with particular capabilities.

Can you control or say what will be your next thought ?

Do you have the choice to create your next thought ?

Can you control the mechanisim of creation of thoughts ?

Can you create anything any object any life out of nothing ?

The body is just using all that is available in the creation.

A tiny seed when planted sprouts in to a big tree ? The entire tree is contained in the tiny seed can you create a seed like that ?

Even the illusion thought knowledge that i have the choice to decide is created - its not your(finite forms) creation.

We as finite form are puppets - we dont have any control.

Nothing is ours - all possessions all our capabilities knowledge - everything is Gods.God given.God gives God takes.

Caution :- Now this shouldnt be taken as a means to escapism and go astray.

Trust god have faith in god.Do your duties with the knowledge everything is happening - as per gods will.And surrender the results to god.

Total Surrender - This is Bhakthi Marg.

Take the best out of the four and practice what ever comes to you naturally.

1.Gnana

2.Bhakthi

3.Yoga - Asana,pranayama,prathyagara,Dharana

4.Karma yoga - selfless service to humanity what ever possible.(Service to humanity and all life forms - is service to God).

The world is one family.

Though on surface it appears the paths are different it leads to the same.

???

Ramana Maharishi though appears to be a Gnani - advocate of Gnana path was a greatest Bhakth.-Surrender and Vicharam both are adviced by Ramana Maharishi.

Nisargadatta Maharajs - Just Gnana version of teaching is made popular he was Greatest Bhakth.

Ramakrishna Paramahamsa - On surface appears to be greatest Bhakth - devotion - was greatest bhakth and Gnani.

The path of bhakthi merges with gnana.

The path of Gnana merges with Bhakthi in the end.

Jaggi Vasudev on surface appears to be a Yogi says the easiest path is Bhakthi.But people dont have that absolute conviction understanding.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited August 29, 2019 by Jkris

[aaalex]

1 hour ago, Jkris said:

@Schahin

Dont reduce equate God to concious mind,subconcious mind etc.

God is the totality of all creations.

Entire universe is god.God alone exists.What ever you see hear touch is god.

What it means there is no free will ?

As a finite form body you are born - did you had any choice to take this birth as a human body male to a particular parents in a particular location with particular capabilities.

Can you control or say what will be your next thought ?

Do you have the choice to create your next thought ?

Can you control the mechanisim of creation of thoughts ?

Can you create anything any object any life out of nothing ?

The body is just using all that is available in the creation.

A tiny seed when planted sprouts in to a big tree ? The entire tree is contained in the tiny seed can you create a seed like that ?

Even the illusion thought knowledge that i have the choice to decide is created - its not your(finite forms) creation.

We as finite form are puppets - we dont have any control.

Nothing is ours - all possessions all our capabilities knowledge - everything is Gods.God given.God gives God takes.

Caution :- Now this shouldnt be taken as a means to escapism and go astray.

Trust god have faith in god.Do your duties with the knowledge everything is happening - as per gods will.And surrender the results to god.

Total Surrender - This is Bhakthi Marg.

Take the best out of the four and practice what ever comes to you naturally.

1.Gnana

2.Bhakthi

3.Yoga - Asana,pranayama,prathyagara,Dharana

4.Karma yoga - selfless service to humanity what ever possible.(Service to humanity and all life forms - is service to God).

The world is one family.

Though on surface it appears the paths are different it leads to the same.

???

Ramana Maharishi though appears to be a Gnani - advocate of Gnana path was a greatest Bhakth.-Surrender and Vicharam both are adviced by Ramana Maharishi.

Nisargadatta Maharajs - Just Gnana version of teaching is made popular he was Greatest Bhakth.

Ramakrishna Paramahamsa - On surface appears to be greatest Bhakth - devotion - was greatest bhakth and Gnani.

The path of bhakthi merges with gnana.

The path of Gnana merges with Bhakthi in the end.

Jaggi Vasudev on surface appears to be a Yogi says the easiest path is Bhakthi.But people dont have that absolute conviction understanding.

 

 

 

 

 

❤️

[R-Type]

https://youtu.be/OFazP2nBIqQ

[Key Elements]

This reminds me of Shinzen Young explaining the Power of Realms Trap at 3:25. I like to call it, The Everythingness Trap. Why? Because during an awakening Everythingness comes out of God (Truth/pure consciousness/the deepest), not the other way around. Yes, you become Everythingness at this point. However, in our daily lives, we're used to seeing Everythingness, dealing with ppl and objects. We get choice confused with freewill because we're always making choices. It's hard to relate to pure consciousness that is completely detached from itself without freewill. Pure consciousness doesn't need to be behaving like any realms. It doesn't need a power of choice. It already "contains" Everythingness (illusion) in it.

Pure consciousness is like the chess board. Why does it need to move like a chess piece? It doesn't need to move like the Queen piece (someone who has achieved nirvana). A chess board behaving like a Queen piece? It doesn't need to.

 

That's why this quote is interesting:

"Aim for the moon. If you miss, you'll be among the stars."

The moon represents Truth. Stars represent Everythingness. Come to think of it, you actually look like stars when you become Everythingness.

Oh, don't look at the finger.

[Jkris]

@Key Elements Please do clarify this

When I am myself goes ->I am all (everythingness>when I am everything goes > I am > when I am goes > Reality is.

???

[Key Elements]

20 minutes ago, Jkris said:

@Key Elements Please do clarify this

When I am myself goes ->I am all (everythingness>when I am everything goes > I am > when I am goes > Reality is.

???

Goes like: Truth (Pure consciousness, completely detached, completely being, no need of freewill, end of all suffering/no suffering) --> Everythingness (anything automatically coming out of it, all realms-each behaving in certain ways, some have more power of choice, some less, some closer to the Source-Truth) --> singularity (flow, transformation, black/white hole, Riding the Ox Backwards) --> ego (embodiment into your body, to love realm, as well as embodiment into the universe)

_____

I was commenting on no freewill in this thread.

[Aeris]

if you want to know about free will,

try to get it instead of thinking about it.

See what? for yourself

@Key Elements I agree with your last post

Edited August 29, 2019 by Aeris

[Key Elements]

@Aeris that's why silence isn't empty. It's full of answers. 

[Nivsch]

On 28.8.2019 at 9:33 PM, Nahm said:

@Schahin

‘Free will’ is only a thought.  ‘No free will’ is only a thought. They are opposite thoughts, but they are just thoughts. That they are opposite thoughts, is really just another thought. These thoughts, are about you. About wether you have free will or not. A thought about you, can’t be true. Since you’re the awareness of the thoughts, and you, awareness, do not begin nor end, do not come nor go. There are no dualities, no axioms, for awareness - you. Awareness is limitless, infinite (you). But the thoughts you are aware of are two-ness, duality, relative to each other. So no thought can do you justice.  

So you can just pick a thought, if you want, and also, you don’t even have to pick one. You could just say, “oh, I see, they’re just thoughts. Ok. That’s good to know”. 

You’re already doing whatever the heck you want. ?? Best to get on purpose, with what you want. Create the life you want. But only if you want to. 

But you dont choose to pick one though. It has been chosen for you because there is no free will (only infinite will and the wisdom of nature is choosing for you what you will do).