How can I tell if I am "green"? How does one actually assess their position in SD?

[QandC]

Being hardcore Orange to the point of becoming disgusted with the ego-driven goals, materialism and the rat-race, then you're opening a door to green. Actually making the transition stepping into the door without slipping back into orange is difficult.

[lmfao]

@ValiantSalvatore Thanks for the large elaboration. I think im going to read the religion of tomorrow. It seems to have a lot of breadth.

 

@Leo Gura

10 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

I say this half-jokingly, but also half-truthfully:

How green is you poo?

How green is my shadow, how green is my food (vegetables change the color of poop) or maybe how green is my waste in the planet. 

@remember I get the picture you're trying to paint. On a tangent, I get the impression that some people are in love with the abstract idea of purple but aren't actually in love with the reality of pure purple (e.g. The murder, rape, tribalism and suffering). 

@bejapuskas yes, you're right. 

 

 

Edited August 29, 2019 by lmfao

[lmfao]

@ValiantSalvatore

I've got the book now, it seems like a doozy. Indigo, violet, ultraviolet, white. The book is extremely thick, I hope being a slow reader isn't an issue. I like books where the thoughts of the author are concisely crystallised, could just be Ken has a lot to say.

I'm just thinking what the hell, turquoise has always been my goal. How is there a third tier. I'm confused lmao. Here I am thinking about orange aspects of myself (although I'm probs yellow in some ways) , only to hear there are 7 stages after that. Maybe this is just the natural shock I get from clinging to spiral dynamics. 

I guess one way to make sense of it might be to give people more credit with where they are along this spiral, but who knows. Or maybe Ken just has a vastly different model to the one I had in my mind (different even in the areas where both models talk about the same thing) . Or maybe I traced the right idea of psychological development but I lack the discernibility (imagine everyones awareness being microscopes of different resolution) in my experience to make further conceptual distinctions. I'll see what I think after reading it. 

 

Edited August 29, 2019 by lmfao

[Forestluv]

5 minutes ago, lmfao said:

I'm just thinking what the hell, turquoise has always been my goal. How is there a third tier. I'm confused lmao. Here I am thinking about orange aspects of myself (although I'm probs yellow in some ways) , only to hear there are 7 stages after that. Maybe this is just the natural shock I get from clinging to spiral dynamics. 

There is a natural tendency for humans to think "yea, yea I've got this stage - I want something new". Part of the desire is to create new concepts - another desire is social hierarchies and a sense of going higher - it can give one's self image a boost.

In terms of SD, the so-called "Tier 3" above Turquoise is poorly developed and mostly conjecture. It is dominated by cognition, symbols, concepts and intellect. I think most people speculating about stages like Coral and Teal are mostly Orange level theorists, with some yellow mixed in. Very very few people have transcended the personality construct and embodied Yellow and Turquoise. It is very rare. I've spent about 15 years working on Green/Yellow/Turquoise -  and have barely scratched the surface. Very few people have embodied Green/Yellow/Turquoise. I've only met a few people in my life. 

If only a handful of people have embodied Green/Yellow/Turquoise - who is Coral and Teal being revealed to? Who is describing Coral and Teal? I'm not buying it. I don't think those describing "Tier 3" have embodied "Tier 2". Their descriptions are far too cognitive, intellectual, conceptual - indicators of lower stages. As well, when one goes deep into Yellow and Turquoise, they will realize there are distinctions and substages in Yellow and Turquoise. When people start seeing distinctions within Yellow and Turquoise and start creating sub-stages within Yellow and Turquiose, I will know that a critical mass of people have entered and are embodying Tier 2. Yet this hasn't happened yet, imo.

[lmfao]

@Serotoninluv When it comes to reading about people describe tier 3, I'll just read it and see what I can take away from it in regards to actuality. Regardless of what conceptual landscape I build about what I read , I need to keep focused on the actuality and direct experience of it all (ie not worrying about whether this thing or that thing is "tier 3")

Interesting what you say about tier 3 descriptions you've read. 

On a tangent, I always end up getting confused when I listen to Leo. On the one hand he speaks about the importance of not conceptualising and not confusing symbols with actuality, but on the other hand he talks about the importance of books and theory. But I know that actuality and direct experience is thing to keep my focus on. 

[Forestluv]

5 minutes ago, lmfao said:

@Serotoninluv When it comes to reading about people describe tier 3, I'll just read it and see what I can take away from it in regards to actuality. Regardless of what conceptual landscape I build about what I read , I need to keep focused on the actuality and direct experience of it all (ie not worrying about whether this thing or that thing is "tier 3")

There may be helpful and practical aspects to theories of Tier 3. Personally, I don't find it particularly useful, yet others may.

[Aeris]

2 hours ago, Serotoninluv said:

There is a natural tendency for humans to think "yea, yea I've got this stage - I want something new". Part of the desire is to create new concepts - another desire is social hierarchies and a sense of going higher - it can give one's self image a boost.

In terms of SD, the so-called "Tier 3" above Turquoise is poorly developed and mostly conjecture. It is dominated by cognition, symbols, concepts and intellect. I think most people speculating about stages like Coral and Teal are mostly Orange level theorists, with some yellow mixed in. Very very few people have transcended the personality construct and embodied Yellow and Turquoise. It is very rare. I've spent about 15 years working on Green/Yellow/Turquoise -  and have barely scratched the surface. Very few people have embodied Green/Yellow/Turquoise. I've only met a few people in my life. 

If only a handful of people have embodied Green/Yellow/Turquoise - who is Coral and Teal being revealed to? Who is describing Coral and Teal? I'm not buying it. I don't think those describing "Tier 3" have embodied "Tier 2". Their descriptions are far too cognitive, intellectual, conceptual - indicators of lower stages. As well, when one goes deep into Yellow and Turquoise, they will realize there are distinctions and substages in Yellow and Turquoise. When people start seeing distinctions within Yellow and Turquoise and start creating sub-stages within Yellow and Turquiose, I will know that a critical mass of people have entered and are embodying Tier 2. Yet this hasn't happened yet, imo.

Yes Indeed I resolved this. The Big différence is : are you using ken wilber spiral or a projected imagination map about a self made imagined concept that is the idea of what the spiral is about. ( Projection ) 

[bejapuskas]

@lmfao What about instead of trying to climb the spiral hierarchy, you try to be more joyful and loving?  That alone will move you super high.

[ValiantSalvatore]

@lmfao The point for me is there is research indicating third tier I can't review it since I do not know what they did and I can't validate it for myself. From reading other wilber books and his audiobooks, I know from his writings that there are higher tiers, yet all of these maps don't make sense, yet when I sit down each wednesday to meditate with shinzen and I know he knows spiral dynamics and wilber I do see third tier as a total possibillity, it is not even that difficult to reach turquoise depending on which description one follows, it can be the first mystical stage as well as the beginning of trans-rational I don't claim I am at turquoise, yet from his description it would be do 1h of meditation each day be under 25 and you have a good chance to grow 1 stage in two years! To hit turquoise otherwise it will take 5 years to grow one stage, that is what his "research" indicates. I said often before I never found it. 

The point is for me I did not start with spiral dynamics but with integral theory, so spiral dynamics is another facet which is included there, and reading about stages above turqouise as well as states helped me with understanding how I personally partially entered coral/indigo under the influence of 1P-LSD, also a different book. I like to conflate things, I can obviously be wrong. Yet, I don't see anyone else having an open-mind about this. So, I am just left with the information. 

Potentially there are better descriptions somewhere else reading about for instance supermind would help to understand the non-dual structure stage. Maybe I am naive ? I don't think Wilber spreads evil, you could technically argue etc. 

I found the description helpful, since spiral dynamics explains nothing about spirtuality in combination with meditative pratices, it's values and history explained in some seemingly prudent manner to me. So, I do enjoy it it's some model in a sense, I never really cling much to things, besides emotions potentially. 

I mean I thought wow 0.5% of the global population is at turquoise that are 40 million people, this would be a hell of a lot of people by looking at the number alone. 

I don't quite understand the critique it would be interesting to see if the research of them is valid, especially of susan cook greuter since she studied parts of third tier. The book has to use language and wilber always writes and speaks like this, it is similar to the integral life forum where someone said Wilber is Orange etc. 

So, I don't know I am not for finger pointing and stuff like this, I like the idea of third tier, wether I know this is true or not time will tell. I am not sure what to think people see this so differently that it is difficult to not be biased. 

I don't have significant experience with any of the other third tier stages and seeing coral or indigo would currently make more sense to me then turqouise it's not like I "buy" turqouise is the highest thing when it's just the beginning of hitting a fully transperosnal stage. I can't tell since I am not even done with the book, I listend to a good bulk of it and read the first 200-300 pages. So, I really can't tell I am processing this still. 

For me personally it is wise to train with someone who is a master at what he or she does, since I did not read thousand of books to understand all of this. I just keep hoping that I don't get into a freaking cult, since people are freaky at one point. To put it nicely or just insane or have shadow elements. 


I personally feel that it is a good scafolding to understand the spiritual language, that people use etc. Since, this can get confusing and technical with jhanas etc, and I don't have a lot of experience since I am just doing this for about 4 years. So, I don't know that much about very experienced states and some people train really hard. 


Knowing about qudrants at least possiblity helps, not everything is spiral dynamics I don't think the researchers would rate themselves as turqouise a good amount of yellow and I highly doubt any of them did any spiritual practices. 

Besides cook-greuter, she gives me the impression that she praticed it, yet I don't know it.


 

Edited August 29, 2019 by ValiantSalvatore

[CreamCat]

56 minutes ago, Keyhole said:

the trigger originated from TJ saying that because of Leo's lack of integrated purple that Leo would someday commit suicide, and I thought that opinion seriously sucked and subsequently don't like Mr. Reeves very much.

Leo himself wrote on this forum that his life purpose changes everyday and he might even decide to commit suicide.

He also says death is a good thing and even uploaded this video.

He seems fond of death. His eyes glitter with enthusiasm when he talks about death.

It's more difficult for a man with strong community bonds to commit suicide.

Edited August 29, 2019 by CreamCat

[CreamCat]

26 minutes ago, ValiantSalvatore said:

1h of meditation each day

Tell me how to do it. Doing a 20 minute meditation is challenging to me.

[ValiantSalvatore]

@CreamCat 1h of meditation is not that much. Depending on what you mean with meditation you can increase the amount by 10 minutes or so each week rinse and repeat. I can't sit longer than 1h without a retreat setting, and I need to move also, since I am not that flexible, so I am not a very good meditatior, but yes I can sit one hour not in SDS I sit 40 mins SDS and then move and do 20 minutes of the rest, since I am not very flexible.

You can try a chair sitting can be hurtful after 2h or so for the back and yes longest I sat was 4h on a chair, it's not that much. 
 

[bejapuskas]

9 hours ago, CreamCat said:

Leo himself wrote on this forum that his life purpose changes everyday and he might even decide to commit suicide.

He also says death is a good thing and even uploaded this video.

He seems fond of death. His eyes glitter with enthusiasm when he talks about death.

It's more difficult for a man with strong community bonds to commit suicide.

You can make anyone look like an idiot if you take things out of context

[tenta]

On 8/27/2019 at 5:34 PM, CreamCat said:

Here are sub-components of Green that I got from TJ Reeves.

• Compassion
  • How well you demonstrate empathy, care, and understanding for another despite the situation they have found or even placed themselves in.
• Humanitarianism
  • The ability to see yourself as part of the one human colony, instead of as an individual. How well you act in accordance to that understanding.
• Idealism
  • The vision you hold for how well the world could be or should be, even if it sin't or even if it might sound ridiculous. Included in this is that each and every human on the planet has the resources, time, attention, and love they need to unlock their potential.
• Post-Modern Awareness
  • A healthy awareness of the fact that many of the rules we take for granted are simply made up. And although biology certainly influences society, the point of being a human is customizing ourselves and choosing the life we want to live despite the biological cards we've been dealt.
• Moral Intuition
  • How connected you are to a gut sense of what is right and wrong at a level that goes beyond what was told to you or written down in a book, but instead comes from your heart.
• Self-Acceptance
  • Knowing that you are perfect as you are right here, right now, and that no one else has the right to validate that fact nor do you need them to.

 

Disagree, being stage green also involves:

Perfect to near-perfect ecological impact

Universal compassion minimum

Very good/advanced psychedelic use/meditation

To add to the last point: not needing ANY outside validation be it whatever authority

Complex understanding of intricate systems that govern environmental problems, societal issues etc.

If you lack any of these, and feel the need to disagree, that's just your own ego and self bias not wanting to admit it's still stuck deep in stage red or whatever  ^^ ;P

[Codrina]

@Rastablasta So, I took the test and I got this: beige 0% purple 13% red 0% blue 20% orange 13% green 13% yellow 20% turquoise 20%. 

What can I learn from this?

[Nivsch]

On 30.8.2019 at 0:18 AM, CreamCat said:

Leo himself wrote on this forum that his life purpose changes everyday and he might even decide to commit suicide.

He also says death is a good thing and even uploaded this video.

He seems fond of death. His eyes glitter with enthusiasm when he talks about death.

It's more difficult for a man with strong community bonds to commit suicide.

I hope you are joking about the suicide.

[Nivsch]

On 30.8.2019 at 1:45 AM, Keyhole said:

That is probably why he is so excited about death - because that is where true community is. 
You have to die in that sense to catch that particular "wave", and it is a pretty sweet ride..
 

Nothing in spirituality has to encourage you to die. If it does so - your spirituality is fake, selfish, cultistic and stupid. I Prefer to be pure RED for all my life than this shitpirituality.

Edited August 31, 2019 by Nivsch