How can I tell if I am "green"? How does one actually assess their position in SD?

[lmfao]

I know to bear in mind that there are different lines of development which can be independent of each other to a degree (e.g. blue in one line but yellow in the other line). I don't know what lines to draw, and I've also (forgotten)/(can't find) a list Leo has made of the different lines of development.

Whilst your stage and your "level of consciousness"(assume it exists hypothetically) are "independent phenomena" (as in the two measurements of your position in both things can be different from one another), there is definitely a link between the two. Some lines of development in SD (a mystical line?) seem to directly correspond/(highly correlate) to non-duality and enlightenment at their core. 

But yeah I can't tell really assess other peoples positions in this model. Because so much variation is accounted for in each stage, descriptions I've heard are abstract and I don't get it.

What has confused me the most is how people describe and talk about green (probably because the orange-green conflict in society is projected onto this forum). I feel like I have *some* idea/feeling of green but its not very clear. There is neurodiversity inherent to humans, and I'm not sure how the development of all forms of neurodiveristy maps onto spiral dynamics. For example, consider people who's psychological traits are almost trending towards being "autistic". Because I don't have a clear and precise understanding of green outside of an abstract understanding alongside some stereotypical examples, hence I find it hard to imagine what it means for neurodiversity to go up the spiral. I have the feeling that I'm at least partially green. 

And I think part of what has motivated me to ask this question is just that I don't where I lie scientifically on different bell curves of different psychological traits (If anyone is confused from this sentence, I don't have the specifics of how you segment psychology into different traits and how you measure them, but imagine they exist for the sake of my point). I'm sort of autistic but don't meet many of the criteria. And so I'm in this weird limbo of having no medical identity or theory to make sense of myself. All I know is that I am different. 

Should I read the Spiral Dynamics book by Don Beck & Christopher Cowan? Or the religion of tomorrow by Ken Wilber? Or a different book?

 

[CreamCat]

Here are sub-components of Green that I got from TJ Reeves.

• Compassion
  • How well you demonstrate empathy, care, and understanding for another despite the situation they have found or even placed themselves in.
• Humanitarianism
  • The ability to see yourself as part of the one human colony, instead of as an individual. How well you act in accordance to that understanding.
• Idealism
  • The vision you hold for how well the world could be or should be, even if it sin't or even if it might sound ridiculous. Included in this is that each and every human on the planet has the resources, time, attention, and love they need to unlock their potential.
• Post-Modern Awareness
  • A healthy awareness of the fact that many of the rules we take for granted are simply made up. And although biology certainly influences society, the point of being a human is customizing ourselves and choosing the life we want to live despite the biological cards we've been dealt.
• Moral Intuition
  • How connected you are to a gut sense of what is right and wrong at a level that goes beyond what was told to you or written down in a book, but instead comes from your heart.
• Self-Acceptance
  • Knowing that you are perfect as you are right here, right now, and that no one else has the right to validate that fact nor do you need them to.

[lmfao]

@CreamCat Nice descriptions there, thanks

[Matt23]

Remember that spiral dynamics is, at least partially, a system about values.   So one way to establish where you roughly are might be to notice what triggers you in others and what you strongly agree with.

[Dan502]

Responding from a different angle, I've tried to list here, in as few words as possible, what must be "moved beyond" or in some sense transcended, to move past (or perhaps "integrate" would be a better way of putting it) each level.

Beige - Base instict

Purple - Tribal identification

Red - Extreme egocentricism

Blue - Mono culturalism

Orange - Individualistic materialism

Green - Idealistic environmentalism

Yellow - Conceptual distinctions

 

Edited August 27, 2019 by Dan502

[d0ornokey]

1 hour ago, CreamCat said:

Post-Modern Awareness

• A healthy awareness of the fact that many of the rules we take for granted are simply made up. And although biology certainly influences society, the point of being a human is customizing ourselves and choosing the life we want to live despite the biological cards we've been dealt.

 

this trait is orange 

aka orange's emergence from blue's rules and realizing its own power to create a life of its own choosing. 

Edited August 27, 2019 by d0ornokey

[ValiantSalvatore]

@lmfao I'd personally prefer the religion of tomorrow I did not finish the book yet, I read it on the side currently. So, I also downloaded the audiobook version to gain more information since it is fascinating again. I'd prefer a Wilber book over Spiral Dynamics I've read both SD books. The description Cream Cat posted are also partially inside the books I took the test that someone posted here from TJ Reeves.

If you want to go for integral theory, AQAL, Third Tier so everything above yellow and tourquise, as well as shadow work, buddishm a short description as well as chakra rungs and ladder analogies. I would go for Wilber. Structure Stages, Structure States, State-Stages. Also parts of spiral dynamics so again explanations from archaic to turqouise. It's important to know quadrants, most people don't know them the spiral goes through that also... it's tetra-intracting.

Spiral dynamics explains the concept very thoroughly and personally I received more value from Wilber, the Spiral Dynamics book is good for the forum let's say to see who talks crap and only watched the videos for instance and did not even take notes or anything like that or discussed it properly or watched the video again etc. So, it's an in-depth view of only spiral dynamics without third tier, without other researchers or potentially little bit about Susan Cook Greuter (she studied parts of third tier) as well as Kohlberg, Piaget etc is included in the religion of tomorrow. 

The ideas from Tj Reeves are also concluded from many books and history, so I do see this as true. A friend of mine who studied political science with sociology explained similar stuff from anthropology lectures. Which you can easily come up with when you know more of integral theory, yet I thought you know all of this stuff already. 

Still all of this is my opinion feel free to choose what suits you !

 

Edited August 27, 2019 by ValiantSalvatore

[peqkno]

@lmfao

I shared your confusion about green (I may still do to some extent).

What helped me personally (I dind't read the books so far, only summaries online) are this:

https://www.hipplanet.com/books/atoz/atoz.htm

It's Hippie A to Z. To me hippies seem to be quite high (I mean on the spiral : green to yellow)
The author goes into all aspects (sex, fashion, ...) so you may get an overview on multiple lines. (And notice self bias)

Also check out this blog: https://metamoderna.org/hanzi-talking-about-metamodern-values
Some articles on there take another angle on modernism, postmodernism (mostly green) and "metamodernism".

Also keep the postmodern concept of breaking down hierarchies in mind.

Hope that may help you!

[lmfao]

@ValiantSalvatore I know Ken Wilber has written multiple books. In your view, is all the detailed and necessary information about integral theory contained in The Religion of Tomorrow, or do I have to read his "Integral Psychology" book? I'm not put off by difficulty of book, if that's a factor you're thinking of. I've already been exposed to Spiral Dynamics and have thought about it a bit, as you know. 

@peqkno Thanks for the green resources man. I've got a book by Michel Foucault I want to read, Discipline and Punish. 

 

 

[ValiantSalvatore]

@lmfao It mostly contains what I've written above and I presume all of this is part of his integral theory, especially quadrants. Integral psychology was a lot more technical than the Religion of tomorrow book. It's not needed at all. Imo. 

He does Not talk about third Tier much in integral psychology . 

Edited August 28, 2019 by ValiantSalvatore

[ValiantSalvatore]

@lmfao Also Yellow has a tendency to repress Green, and each stage represses the next or the lower stage. Yellow starts to repress the heart felt side and becomes obsessed with wholes and Green is acting out apoplectic against Yellow and sees Yellow as red for instance according to this book. I've personally witnessed this in some group projects and I am projected a lot upon let alone because of skin color. Which they would deny. Still, this is universal.

Try to see what works, there is so much information I can't tell what is true and what is not true. Wilber also says that Yellow is the first stage that is not demonized by the other stages as much and sort of seen as neutral. Not in the Orange/Green conciliatory sense, yet because it sees through the aperspecival madness of green. This is my observation. 

So you could not see you are Green etc because of some shadow element and you are at Yellow as well as you could be orange and not advance to Green because of an Orange shadow reaction towards Green or just not enough stage-growth pratices which is actually not that much. I just listend to this yesterday.

[Angelite]

1 hour ago, remember said:

the major line about green at it`s core from my perspective is the point where people realize how ego driven individuals are regarding nature and society and from my intuition in green a suffering sets in, that can only be eliminated by starting to find solutions to overcome that deep gap between the self and nature. this phenomenon played out in history in artistic movements like romanticism or in the bible at the point where adam and eve get thrown out of paradise.  green understands on a personal level that it`s impossible for the self to take part in oranges ego games anymore if the i ever wants to feel happy again. green then starts to actively search for spiritual and practical solutions to reach that goal not only for oneself but also for others. green can be pretty egoic against orange, being unforgiving but very loving and compassionate towards people on the greener side, or who are socially compassionate and altruistic what sometimes you can also find in blue, there green often goes the path of activism. or green is general compassionate peace loving and gets hurt very fast by ego corrupted people but then projects the hurt feelings more autoaggressively and works through them spiritually. green loves small comunities on the coutryside and often finds fullfillment in returning to nature through returning to organic selfsustaining agricultural comunities. green  also likes everything tribal because green starts to search for solutions in it`s roots at nature in that sense orange could need a revival of purple to step further into green and reconnect with the roots of being human through mystical experiences with nature and comunity and heartfelt direct connection based on love and compassion. green often manages to create small communities be it in activism or in new living forms, that influence the world through creating that love for the world the world is often in denial about.

This felt very heartless...

[CreamCat]

15 hours ago, ValiantSalvatore said:

Also Yellow has a tendency to repress Green, and each stage represses the next or the lower stage. Yellow starts to repress the heart felt side and becomes obsessed with wholes and Green is acting out apoplectic against Yellow and sees Yellow as red for instance according to this book. I've personally witnessed this in some group projects and I am projected a lot upon let alone because of skin color. Which they would deny. Still, this is universal.

That's unbalanced development. If you are developed well from Beige to Yellow, you do not repress Green.

[CreamCat]

16 hours ago, remember said:

green can be pretty egoic against orange, being unforgiving but very loving and compassionate towards people on the greener side, or who are socially compassionate and altruistic what sometimes you can also find in blue, there green often goes the path of activism. or green is general compassionate peace loving and gets hurt very fast by ego corrupted people but then projects the hurt feelings more autoaggressively and works through them spiritually.

If you think you are Green and feel little or no compassion toward Orange, your Green is poorly developed.

Well-developed compassion extends to stages below and above itself. It even extends to psychopaths.

The average is poorly developed and pretty miserable at any stage of Spiral Dynamics.

Leo Gura is well developed from Beige to Yellow, except at Purple. He is different from the average Green people you see. Yet, his Green is well developed.

Edited August 29, 2019 by CreamCat

[ValiantSalvatore]

@CreamCat Yes, this is what tends to happen. 

[Leo Gura]

I say this half-jokingly, but also half-truthfully:

How green is you poo?

[Peo]

36 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

How green is you poo?

My poo is very brown, when i look at it. 

[bejapuskas]

@lmfao  Be careful, this effort to identify yourself with some stage can cause you to feel superior to others.

[Rastablasta]

There is a spiral dynamics test you can do. 

Here is the link: sdtest.ru/en/

[CreamCat]

6 hours ago, Keyhole said:

Except at purple, hm?

I seem to remember Mr. TJ Reeves saying something about that.  Do you understand how and why he has that viewpoint and agree, or did you just adopt it as your own because this person sounds like they might know what they are talking about?

I've heard from TJ Reeves. If I think about Leo Gura on his videos and his forum, he doesn't seem like a man who nurtures his tribe. He prefers being a lone wolf.

My purple is poor, too.

Edited August 29, 2019 by CreamCat