Why Absolute can't know yourself?

[allislove]

That was said that Formless can't know yourself, so it creared the world of duality. But why we assume so? 

Imagine an ant trying to understand the life of human. Maybe, it's just not possible? 

I mean, of course the smartest ants (say with name Leo) and many others may argue about it. Tell that it is so. Formless can't know yourself. We are all One. Look how many scriptures written about it. But isn't life paradoxical and if many people tell similar thing this is probably a bad sign and it's not true? Smartest ants may tell take a honeydew and check with your direct experience, rational mind can't grasp it. And so I did few times. But honeydew is only half of the story. Another half of the story is theoretical foundation from the smartest ants which forced me to rationalise the Experience in very specific way. 

What if everyone is deluded? 

What if Formless can know yourself via yourself and Reality works in completely different way, not like in ants' scriptures?

I don't know. 

 

[Inliytened1]

@dimitri how does something that's already everything all at once not be that so that it can be that again LOL..it has to "unknow" itself.

It's a paradox.

Edited August 27, 2019 by Inliytened1

[allislove]

@Inliytened1 thanks for your reply

That's exactly what I am talking about. We assume using our rational minds that it should "unknow" itself but what if this is just a wrong assumption of our limited mind. What if there is other way to know itself without unknowing and all this spiritual mumbo-jumbo is just as delusional as materialistic worldview. 

And yes, you can be It, then you "know" . But again, mind rationalize the Experience afterwards based on theoretical knowledge prior to the Experience. 

Edited August 27, 2019 by dimitri

[tsuki]

The rational mind is the part of the All, and the All is describing itself in scriptures through it. 
The All does not have to understand itself because there is no All, it is not a 'thing'.
it is the rational mind that has to know that it unwittingly creates a 'thinker' and an 'object' of thoughts.
That is what is being described in scriptures, how the mind can un-mind itself.

Edited August 27, 2019 by tsuki

[allislove]

@tsuki well said.

I think it clarifies something to my rational mind, thanks.
But anyway, I want to be extra skeptical to any spiritual stuff since I feel you may get in trap very quickly.
I want to go in my spiritual journey from the position "I don't know" until I verify through direct experience rather then believing what scriptures tell.
 As for now, having just a few full trips, I can't be 100% sure that Formless should become a Form in order to know itself via Form.
I need more direct experience I guess  
 

[Inliytened1]

2 hours ago, dimitri said:

@Inliytened1  What if there is other way to know itself without unknowing ?

 

It's doing that right now!

[Nahm]

 

6 hours ago, dimitri said:

That was said that Formless can't know yourself, so it creared the world of duality. But why we assume so? 

Imagine an ant trying to understand the life of human. Maybe, it's just not possible? 

I mean, of course the smartest ants (say with name Leo) and many others may argue about it. Tell that it is so. Formless can't know yourself. We are all One. Look how many scriptures written about it. But isn't life paradoxical and if many people tell similar thing this is probably a bad sign and it's not true? Smartest ants may tell take a honeydew and check with your direct experience, rational mind can't grasp it. And so I did few times. But honeydew is only half of the story. Another half of the story is theoretical foundation from the smartest ants which forced me to rationalise the Experience in very specific way. 

What if everyone is deluded? 

What if Formless can know yourself via yourself and Reality works in completely different way, not like in ants' scriptures?

I don't know. 

 

What are you referring to with “That was said” ?   Can you post the video  here?

[allislove]

@Nahm hard to find ?. But what I meant is I have an idea (which I think I heard from the different sources) that Formless can't know itself, so it creared Form, world of duality, to know itself through itself. 

[Nahm]

@dimitri Hard to say much without any context around it. Write down the duality, paradigm, and or paradox, and contemplate it. The clarity will arise, they all collapse.

[allislove]

@Nahm ? eventually everything will collapse. 

[Inliytened1]

@Nahm think of it like an eye that cannot see itself - or look back at itself.  Or a finger that can't point back at itself.  It just is itself.  But the eye can create another eye that can then look back at itself.  Its the self reference problem.  It's rock bottom.  You can't point back at yourself because you are the very thing you are trying to point back to.

But also being yourself and knowing yourself through yourself are identical.

Edited August 27, 2019 by Inliytened1

[Nahm]

54 minutes ago, dimitri said:

@Nahm ? eventually everything will collapse. 

Sure, but while your’re still alive is the best of both worlds.