George Gurdjieff

[Zigzag Idiot]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Gurdjieff

George Gurdjieff - A contemporary acquaintance of Valentine Thomberg.

https://www.gurdjieff.org/lipsey1.htm

[Petals]

@Zigzag Idiot this Forth Way 'system' seems so hard to pin down. Is there something that you've taken away from it which really has changed something in your daily life?

many of the concepts seem to be rather arcane, that's why I always get the sense that there is something here that other systems don't have. but is there really?

[Zigzag Idiot]

6 minutes ago, Petals said:

@Zigzag Idiot this Forth Way 'system' seems so hard to pin down. Is there something that you've taken away from it which really has changed something in your daily life?

many of the concepts seem to be rather arcane, that's why I always get the sense that there is something here that other systems don't have. but is there really?

@Petals it's seems arcane maybe because it's overall vast in scope and generally things highly driven people don't want to take a look at. Nothing is really hidden anymore about the Work but due to our childhood conditioning, even adulthood conditioning nowadays helped by multinational corporate advertising propagagandas, its more difficult to be pulled out of the cultural conditioned trance.There are several areas in my life has which been helped in seeing my self as a 3 brained being (3 centered human) basically. And then work towards balancing. A person has to be completely sincere in willing to see ones own lies and self deception and to just stand the middle of it and let it burn. Feel it fully let it burn, let it transform. It has made me a more forgiving  person. I'm not as reactive as I was once and im more indifferent or less reactive to rather intence feelings.  I don't react impulsively as I used to. I still do. It's an ongoing battle and it does become easier with practice. 

Mainly having understandings through the uselessness of complaining. But also in seeing the things that are in other people that piss me off and being willing and able to admit that aspect about myself, a peace arrises in me when this happens because I no longer hate. In one feel swoop through - UNDERSTANDING  -sometime I'm able to completely forgive others as well as myself. This seems to free up the heart, and some awareness. In many instances, these times of forgiveness cycle around. It has taken me years and years to finally let go of some of my really ingrained greivences.

In the past I would occasionally wordvomit hatred towards others who let me down in someway. It always resulted in a loss of life force and a loss of inner quiet. The troubling part is how many times I had to go through this hellish routine before the lights really came. Some more than others. Purifying the emotional center is not a quick undertaking for the majority.

Theres A multitude of different kinds of Inquiry  based groups. I've dipped into and out of a few of them.

A long time student of the work, Martin Butler, said something that I really appreciated - "we have to find our own way in a sense". One has to learn enough about the Work and then make it your own as it applies to ones own life. 

At the base of it all is actually be able to contact our Conscience while listening past the noisy screaming and manipulations of the ego and superego who has allies in our mind - heart - and instinctive center. Until we can ground through sensation and develop presence in the body then it will  be the intellectual/emotional complex pulling our puppet strings. The Fourth Way teaches that we're a multiplicity. Some more than others but along side this is the phenomena of having psychological blind spots . That means we see it in others and not ourselves and within this lies layers of self deception hurt and confusion.

This is not a very cheery summary but there are definitely good things to be had by doing the work. Having or developing a love for truth in itself is so vital..

Hope my blunt words were helpful. Im glad you asked! 

[Zigzag Idiot]

If this thread went ahead to include everything that has to do with Self Inquiry as it falls under the Gurdjieff umbrella, I think  that would be great. @LeoGura and Moderators I welcome guidance,,,,,

This is one of my favorites that I've posted before.

I'm not in 100 % in agreement with Martin about everything but he has helped me a lot.

 

[Petals]

@Zigzag Idiot thanks so much for the detailed answer! 

[Zigzag Idiot]

Gurdjieff wrote in ALL And EVERYTHING that true awareness required participation from all three centers. Whether mechanical "autopilot" behavior, emotional behavior or dry Intellectual dominance, these are forms of Itoklanoz awareness  (Two centered awareness or the egoic operating system as C. Bourgeault puts it.)

Three centered awareness or the state of Self Remembering he referred to as Fulasnitamnian awareness.

in Itoklanoz awareness one radiates from head centered awareness.

In Fulasnitamnian awareness one emanates from the heart.

Its much more pleasant to emanate than it is to radiate. An ego radiates.

Being emanates.

[Zigzag Idiot]

In Talks on Beelzebub's Tales, Bennett distinguishes four types of suffering - Unnecessary Suffering, Unavoidable Suffering, Voluntary Suffering and Intentional Suffering. Lets have a look at each of these to see if they can help our understanding:

The first is Unnecessary Suffering. This would be the type of suffering that we incur because of our unreasonable attitudes and expectations towards others, from our ill-will, hatred and rejection of others, from doubt, possessiveness, arrogance and self pity. In other words, suffering arising from our self-importance.

The second is Unavoidable Suffering. This would be the type of suffering that comes to us by accident or from events beyond our control, such as interpersonal conflicts, war, disaster, disease or death.

Third, we have Voluntary Suffering. This would be the type of suffering that we take upon ourselves in order to accomplish a personal aim, such as an athlete who disciplines himself to win a race, or a student who labours to get good grades.

And finally we have Intentional Suffering. According to Bennett, this would be the kind of suffering that we take upon ourselves in order to accomplish an impersonal or altruistic goal, one that is directed more towards service to others or to the Work, and not for any personal gain. Bennett assumes that this is what Gurdjieff meant by Intentional Suffering.

From an article on the second Conscious Shock 

https://www.endlesssearch.co.uk/philo_is_talk_ae2005.htm

[MrWolf]

Thanks for the link. That youtube channel "Corporeal Fantasy" has some really really good high quality stuff!! Glad I found it. Thank you.

Edited September 14, 2019 by MrWolf

[Zigzag Idiot]

 

@MrWolf  ?‍♂️?‍♂️?‍♂️?‍♂️?‍♂️?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Centers_(Fourth_Way)

[Zigzag Idiot]

Meetings with Remarkable men is autobiographical in nature. 

Gurdjieff on an expedition crossing the Gobi desert-

 

 "The first thing next day, with the consent of our consciousness, degenerated like those of all contemporary people and corresponding exactly to the requirements of hell, we killed all the goats, which only the day before we had regarded as our sincere friends and associates in overcoming the difficulties of the journey."

After this admirable Christian-Mohammedan manifestation, one of us began to cut thier meat into small pieces in order to roast it.,,,,,,,"

Edited October 3, 2019 by Zigzag Idiot
Typo 2

[Zigzag Idiot]

Gurdjieff International Review

https://www.gurdjieff.org/

 

Gurdjieff's Allegory for the four bodies

Carridge = physical body

Horse      = emotional center kedsjan or Astral body

Driver     = Intellectual center = higher Intellectual  

Master/Awakened Being = connects with Causal body or Imaginal realm

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Zigzag Idiot]

William James Thompson, BA (hons)

J.G.Bennett‟s Interpretation of the Teachings of G.I.Gurdjieff: a study of 

transmission in the fourth way

 Thesis submitted for the degree of PhD, University of Lancaster, February 1995

https://www.scribd.com/document/115029506/W-J-THOMPSON-Gurdjieff-Bennet-and-the-Fourth-Way

 

Interesting and detailed Table of Contents 

[Zigzag Idiot]

There is really some value to these short clips explaining Fourth Way Ideas.

[Zigzag Idiot]

 

 

[Alex]

What makes Gurdjieff special, among the vast array of mystics and spiritual teachers one can learn from? I am just currious.

[Zigzag Idiot]

You just have to discover for yourself, I would say.

 

Ocke de Boer- In his own words: "Gurdjieff was and is a very big guy in the Fourth Way, but he did not invent it."

http://www.higherbeingbodies.com/about-the-author.html

 

I try to observe my tendency towards hero worship. This is a lifelong behavioral tendency of mine. From Captain Kirk and Mr Spock, Yoda, L. Ron Hubbard, Ken Wilbur, Eckart Tolle, Cynthia Bourgeault, ALi Almaas, George Gurdjieff, Ocke de Boer, Hunter Thompson, George Washington,,,, etc.,,

 

 

[Petals]

a man named Lee van Lear's blog on inner work

http://zenyogagurdjieff.blogspot.com/?m=1

[Zigzag Idiot]

Thank you @Petals  Rich resource you shared!

 

 

[Zigzag Idiot]

My second Fourth Way teacher taught similarly to this recording.

The idea that we have 2 higher centers - higher feeling and higher Intellectual that are completely formed but that we have to make contact with these 2 higher centers. Dwight, my teacher for a short while, was a gifted painter, refused to eat meat and his teaching leaned more to the flavor of 4th Way as esoteric Christianity.

[Petals]

Jeanne de Salzmann's 'The Reality of Being'.

inspiring and intimate (it's from her notebooks).