Is reality the same as dream ??

[Alex bliss]

Are we really in a dream right now or is it different from dream?? I know both has no inherent existence but I kinda feel like we have more control over reality than dreams??

What's the actual truth?? 

[Shaun]

Funnily enough, I was just reading what Ramana Maharshi had to say about it.

"Waking is long and a dream short; other than this there is no difference. Just as waking happenings seem real while awake, so do those in a dream while dreaming. In dream the mind takes onanother body. In both waking and dream states thoughts, names and forms occur simultaneously."

This explanation scares me because if there is no difference between dreaming and reality, that means that the people I dream up at night are just as fake as the ones I encounter in the waking state. By fake I mean that they are just appearances and don't actually have their own experience of the world like I do.

 

[Alex bliss]

@Shaun but I think we should also realize that we are also a fake ...this is a dream character and not really us ?

[Forestluv]

44 minutes ago, Shaun said:

This explanation scares me because if there is no difference between dreaming and reality, that means that the people I dream up at night are just as fake as the ones I encounter in the waking state. By fake I mean that they are just appearances and don't actually have their own experience of the world like I do.

This is a dream vs real duality that can cause a lot of distress. 

Imagine having a coin in which all you have ever seen in your life is the Tails side. You get a glimpse of the Heads side and now question whether the Tails side is actually Tails. Maybe Tails is actually Heads. This sounds like no big deal in terms of a coin, yet can be a very big deal at the human level. Because, Tails represents people we love and care about.

What you aren't seeing is that Heads and Tails are both the same coin. 

@Alex bliss Our brains are wired to see in opposites. If it is true that wakefullness is the same as a dream, then the mind will want to believe the opposite is false. I.e. it is false that wakefullness is different than a dream. The mind wants to work in binary "either / or" orientations. That is, a dream is either the same as wakefullness or different than wakefullness. Expanding beyond this orientation can be quite challenging and many paradoxes will arise.

You can realize a truth without rejecting the opposite as being false.It's not an either/or decision.  Just set aside the opposite for a bit and see truth.

[Inliytened1]

1 hour ago, Shaun said:

Funnily enough, I was just reading what Ramana Maharshi had to say about it.

"Waking is long and a dream short; other than this there is no difference. Just as waking happenings seem real while awake, so do those in a dream while dreaming. In dream the mind takes onanother body. In both waking and dream states thoughts, names and forms occur simultaneously."

This explanation scares me because if there is no difference between dreaming and reality, that means that the people I dream up at night are just as fake as the ones I encounter in the waking state. By fake I mean that they are just appearances and don't actually have their own experience of the world like I do.

 

They do - simultaneously as you do.  Because its God dreaming them and dreaming that it is being them individually and holistically (dreaming the whole thing) simultaneously.  And since you are God.....

Yes this can be scary at first that everything is One.   

But all ya have to do is imagine duality and poof you got it

 

Edited August 26, 2019 by Inliytened1

[allislove]

@Serotoninluv nicely said.

 

> What you aren't seeing is that Heads and Tails are both the same coin. 

 

No need to be afraid of dream vs real duality since it's one, reality is both real and dream, there is no difference? That what you wanted to say? Trying to understand your statement... 

[Forestluv]

50 minutes ago, dimitri said:

@Serotoninluv No need to be afraid of dream vs real duality since it's one, reality is both real and dream, there is no difference? 

There is a difference and there is no difference. This is the big leap for a rational mind because it doesn't make rational sense.

The mind creates criteria of what is "real". Some may say "You create your own reality". 

This is one area psychedelics can be helpful, because they are nearly guaranteed to break down this duality and leave the person asking "what is real?". Yet, anything that disrupts one's sense of grounded, objective reality can be helpful. There are some neuroscientists open to the relativity of perception, dark room retreats, sensory deprivation tanks, lucidity during sleep and wake. Yet these can be minor disruptions of one's conditioned sense of reality. Psychedelics are like a bulldozer.

[allislove]

> There is a difference and there is no difference

 

Damn it! Again duality. 

 

Thanks for advertising psychodelics. I know  they are the real thing.

[allislove]

@Alex bliss I had a similar question a while back. Maybe, you may find the answers to be interesting:

I feel questions related to dream vs real are common on this forum.

[Joker_Theory]

@dimitri just read the thread and came across this said by Serotoninluv:

"For those that liked the dream analogy. . . Imagine our character Paul really wants to find truth. He opens himself up and surrenders as much as he can. He goes on a spiritual retreat. This could be a vippassana retreat, a solo retreat or an Ayahuasca retreat. During the retreat he has some glimpses of awakening. (The Real You is actually waking up a bit). Imagine what this would be like for Paul if You start waking up a bit. Paul and the world around him starts to dissolve and become odd. This could be liberating or terrifying to Paul. The Real You may even open your eyes a bit and notice your bed and the room around you. The Real You falls back asleep and Paul becomes Paul again. This glimpse beyond the dream is incredibly powerful. Paul doesn't know what to make of it. He feels really unstable. His whole perception of life is forever changed. Yet, he still tries to recontexualize this awakening into his dream world. 

So. . . how might Paul describe this to his friends in the dream. He would sound A LOT like what we hear in spirituality. As he looks around his dream world would say things like "I don't exist", "form is formless" (notice how form is formless within his dream). He would say "the person doesn't awaken, it's beyond the person". When people ask him "are you awakened?" it would be weird. He knows he is a dream character within a higher intelligence (The Real You). He would say "we are all One" (every thing within the dream is One dream occurring in the Real You).

One of Paul's friends, Stacey, asks if awakening will help her lose weight. Another friend, Jack, asks if awakening will help will get rid of his anxiety and depression. Paul tries to tell them that there is something higher going on here and awakening isn't going to help anyone in the dream get anything. It is beyond the character. "

IS THIS FOR REAL??? Has anyone have the experience of the real YOU waking up and the Real You may even open your eyes a bit and notice your bed and the room around you"???

Wow if true that is fascinating to me. PLease tell your experiences PLEASE!!!! I feel very liberated from thinking it's all a dream.

 

[Inliytened1]

11 minutes ago, Joker_Theory said:

@dimitri just read the thread and came across this said by Serotoninluv:

"For those that liked the dream analogy. . . Imagine our character Paul really wants to find truth. He opens himself up and surrenders as much as he can. He goes on a spiritual retreat. This could be a vippassana retreat, a solo retreat or an Ayahuasca retreat. During the retreat he has some glimpses of awakening. (The Real You is actually waking up a bit). Imagine what this would be like for Paul if You start waking up a bit. Paul and the world around him starts to dissolve and become odd. This could be liberating or terrifying to Paul. The Real You may even open your eyes a bit and notice your bed and the room around you. The Real You falls back asleep and Paul becomes Paul again. This glimpse beyond the dream is incredibly powerful. Paul doesn't know what to make of it. He feels really unstable. His whole perception of life is forever changed. Yet, he still tries to recontexualize this awakening into his dream world. 

So. . . how might Paul describe this to his friends in the dream. He would sound A LOT like what we hear in spirituality. As he looks around his dream world would say things like "I don't exist", "form is formless" (notice how form is formless within his dream). He would say "the person doesn't awaken, it's beyond the person". When people ask him "are you awakened?" it would be weird. He knows he is a dream character within a higher intelligence (The Real You). He would say "we are all One" (every thing within the dream is One dream occurring in the Real You).

One of Paul's friends, Stacey, asks if awakening will help her lose weight. Another friend, Jack, asks if awakening will help will get rid of his anxiety and depression. Paul tries to tell them that there is something higher going on here and awakening isn't going to help anyone in the dream get anything. It is beyond the character. "

IS THIS FOR REAL??? Has anyone have the experience of the real YOU waking up and the Real You may even open your eyes a bit and notice your bed and the room around you"???

Wow if true that is fascinating to me. PLease tell your experiences PLEASE!!!! I feel very liberated from thinking it's all a dream.

 

This is exactly what happens.  The real You is God.   You also can notice that you are the bed as well as the room.

Edited August 26, 2019 by Inliytened1

[Leo Gura]

It goes even deeper. There is no difference between fake and real.

The universe cannot tell what is fake, since everything, even fake things, have to be imagined by consciousness, otherwise they would no be at all.

In other words, fake tits are still real, and real tits are just a dream

[Inliytened1]

@Leo Gura yeah it has to imagine them as being fake first.

[Inliytened1]

The difference between fake and real is 2nd order.  First order just is.  Existence.

[Alex bliss]

But they have no independent existence right 

[Inliytened1]

@Alex bliss You give it meaning.

[Nahm]

11 hours ago, Alex bliss said:

Are we really in a dream right now or is it different from dream?? I know both has no inherent existence but I kinda feel like we have more control over reality than dreams??

What's the actual truth?? 

What’s your direct experience of the sleeping...in which you dream?

When you wake up and remember a dream, does it convince you you’re awake?

If both have no inherent existence, what’s this?  What are you?

Is the moon illuminating, or illuminated?

[Harikrishnan]

So thoughts happening are also real right and either i can identify with it and create emotion whatever it is or i can disidentify with it and be present and be peaceful. Now i understand what people say by create there own reality.

Edited August 27, 2019 by Harikrishnan

[Joker_Theory]

19 hours ago, Inliytened1 said:

This is exactly what happens.  The real You is God.   You also can notice that you are the bed as well as the room.

So for me to wake up like that, i need to wake up in another place, no?? also, if that Me wakes up then it's like i never existed or is this what i call "my consciousness" does that be there too??

Edited August 27, 2019 by Joker_Theory

[Inliytened1]

4 minutes ago, Joker_Theory said:

So for me to wake up like that, i need to wake up in another place, no?? also, if that Me wakes up then it's like i never existed or is this what i call "my consciousness" does that be there too.

What other place - there is no where to go.  

Wherever you go that's where reality is.

When you wake up as God the illusion of @Joker_Theory is no more   temporarily