Alcoholics Anonymous

[Bill W]

Yes, I honestly believe these teachings have a place on this sub-forum. I've seen Leo make the odd reference to AA and 12-step programs, and I've never seen him dismiss them out of hand. One thing AA has in common with Leo's vision is that AA is a program of ACTION. You have to do the practices daily. You have to do the work. If you try to avoid taking responsibility you will likely not make much progress. If you are stuck in the blame game you will likely not make much progress. 

I really believe that the teachings would also be valuable to people who don't identify as an addict. 

I'll leave you with two videos for now and then below some of my favorite passages from AA Literature. 

First video is Father Martin talking about Step 1, 14.54 long

 

Second video is Russell Brand covering Steps 1-5 with a reference to psychedelics at the end actually, 3.25 long

 

Some of my favorite passages from AA literature 

• Selfishness is the root of our troubles. Driven by a hundred forms of fear and self-delusion.
• Self-righteousness and avoiding looking at your own shortcomings, the very thing we condemned in others, was our own evil.
• When temporary good fortune came our way, we indulged ourselves in fantasies of still greater victories over people and circumstances. Thus, blinded by self-confidence, we were apt to play the big shot. Of course, people turned away from us, bored or hurt.
• Nearly every serious emotional problem can be seen as a case of misdirected instinct. We impose our instincts on others. We step on the toes of our fellows and they retaliate. We must place spiritual growth before the satisfaction of instincts.
• If we examine every disturbance we have, great or small, we will find at the root of it some unhealthy dependency and its consequent unhealthy demand. Let us, with God’s help, continually surrender these hobbling liabilities. Then we can be set free to live.
• If we were to live, we had to be free of anger and resentment.
• We must be sure to remember that we cannot buy our own peace of mind at the expense of another.
• This is a sick man. How can I be helpful to him? We avoid retaliation or argument.
• Honesty with ourselves and others gets us sober, but it is tolerance that keeps us that way.
• In meditation, debate has no place. We rest quietly with the thoughts of someone who knows, so that we may experience and learn.

[Zigzag Idiot]

@Bill W  Great Idea!

I just wanted to lend my support. I recommend the book to everyone. The part of the book which has the personal stories of the founders is what I remember also affecting me in a deep way .

I think this site is legit. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

https://www.aa.org/pages/en_US/read-the-big-book-and-twelve-steps-and-twelve-traditions

 

[DrewNows]

What do ya know, Teal Swan Just uploaded This video today 

Addiction and how to overcome addiction 

Deeper look at addiction and why most people have some form of addiction whether it’s deemed societally acceptable or not 

[Bill W]

@Zigzag Idiot Hey man. Thanks for your input. Yes, the individual stories during the second part of the basic AA text are very inspiring. I've also learned a lot from them. Thanks for the link. It's legit. 

@DrewNows Thanks Drew. I've watched a few segments and I really like it. Will watch the whole 25-mins ASAP. I knew eventually you would send me a Teal Swan video that I embraced 

Speak soon guys 

[outlandish]

Wow @Bill W now I understand your avatar and username! I knew something seemed familiar there 

Maybe some of you know this already, but Bill Wilson, the creator of AA, used LSD and many people say that his experience with LSD was pivotal in the formation of the AA program. He wasn't tremendously open about his use of LSD because of the prohibition and stigma at the time, but it's easy to read between the lines and see how it affected his life. You can read more about this topic here, or elsewhere on the web.

[Aeris]

we are all addicts, the thing is, the right balance.

you could even be addict to bread or sugar and never identify as an addict.

Every human should be treated as a potential addict.

 

I m addicted to being high on weed almost all the time.

 think the shadow is just clear for me, I m bored by non very high stimulating environment. ( was doing weed until my 20, I was addicted to video games until then ( and I mean 95% of my free time was on computer/internet ), started to work and LP when I started weed ).

 

I should quit internet and all, and I did for 2 weeks without any problems.

Now I just smoke cause it is what it is

Edited August 28, 2019 by Aeris

[tsuki]

17 hours ago, Aeris said:

we are all addicts, the thing is, the right balance.

you could even be addict to bread or sugar and never identify as an addict.

Addiction is relative to the amount of complexity the mind can handle.
Some people fail to see that they are addicted to alcohol, and some are genuinely concerned about their sugar intake.
Both have the potential to ruin lives (diabetes), but some are much more potent in diluting one's clarity and require more decisive measures.

On 24.08.2019 at 10:48 PM, Bill W said:

Yes, I honestly believe these teachings have a place on this sub-forum.

Honestly, I also hesitate when posting things here.
I wish it was common knowledge that 'high' conscious resources are relative to the point of view of the poster.
Maybe it would be a better idea if we used some kind of metric, like self-assessed spiral dynamics stage in the title? @Leo Gura

Thank you for posting the AA reference @Bill W.

[Bill W]

@Zigzag Idiot  @outlandish @tsuki @Aeris Thanks for the contributions.

Bill W and LSD is a challenge for me because when I first signed up to actualised.org I judged all who endulged in psychedelics to be using a substance to gain a temporary and artificial change in mental state. Like a fake push up the ladder of self development.  Nothing more than wanting to get high, only doing it with a drug they could pretend was part of the normal self development process. 

I don't intend to use psychedelics but I'm less critical of their use now and more accepting that I am ignorant in that area. 

I've been around mental health self help for almost all my adult life. The original AA literature which I believe was heavily influenced by Bill W is the best mental health guide I've ever read. Or how to live your life guide perhaps. Self honesty. Getting out of victim mind set. Stop blaming others. Taking responsibility. Dealing with resentments. Surrender. Letting go. Giving service. Forgiveness. Compassion. Self reflection. Belief patterns. Realising fear is behind virtually all emotional disturbance. Meditation. Prayer. Humility. Guiding others. Carrying the message. Principles before personalities. Easy does it. The Serenity Prayer. Hope. Making amends to those harmed by your egoic behaviours.

I wonder how much influence LSD had on a non psychologically trained person writing one of the best mental health books ever written. 

I mean mental health/spiritual health as one. 

 

[tsuki]

9 hours ago, Bill W said:

Bill W and LSD is a challenge for me because when I first signed up to actualised.org I judged all who endulged in psychedelics to be using a substance to gain a temporary and artificial change in mental state. Like a fake push up the ladder of self development.  Nothing more than wanting to get high, only doing it with a drug they could pretend was part of the normal self development process. 

@Bill W I was coming from a similar place, only having prior experience with tobacco, alcohol and weed.
I tried LSD twice and I must say that this substance is unlike any other, and I know that I sound like a total addict.

My spiritual journey has led me to understand that my human intelligence is mostly constrained by my own choice, by thoughts, possibilities, that I'm afraid of exploring. With LSD, that barrier is gone and for 12 hours, you are forced into a more open (intelligent) perspective. That gives you a unique place to reflect on yourself and look past your habitual ways of intellectual self-deceit. Not only that, but your consciousness also expands, you are able to 'gather' more perceptions simultaneously. You have direct, unfiltered, access to how you perceive your surroundings through your body. If you are mistreating it (and most of us actually do), then you will learn that very, very painfully.

So, why am I convinced that LSD is not addictive? This shit is painful and terrifying. You are literally going through your own bullshit for the first half of the trip, simply because you can't stand the sight of it. When I'm sober, I really, really, respect the substance. It is definitely not a recreational toy. To contrast this with alcohol - it enhances your perception, not dulls it. It cannot be used as an escape from facing your problems. That causes "bad trips".

Not convincing you of anything though, simply sharing my experience wor what it's worth. 

Edited August 31, 2019 by tsuki

[DrewNows]

look what came out this morning 

[Zigzag Idiot]

@Bill W

 

 

[outlandish]

On 8/30/2019 at 4:10 PM, Bill W said:

Bill W and LSD is a challenge for me because when I first signed up to actualised.org I judged all who endulged in psychedelics to be using a substance to gain a temporary and artificial change in mental state. Like a fake push up the ladder of self development.  Nothing more than wanting to get high, only doing it with a drug they could pretend was part of the normal self development process. 

I don't intend to use psychedelics but I'm less critical of their use now and more accepting that I am ignorant in that area. 

I can relate to this perspective, and felt the same as you at one point. I remember in my very-late teens being around many people who were taking a lot of LSD, during a bit of a heyday of acid in the mid-90s. It seemed a bit like they were cheating, and I also saw some people over-indulge and become very scattered in their lives. I remember one friend proclaiming that LSD was a "gift from god", which seemed creepy and insane at the time.

Now I understand what he meant. I thought he was talking about the drug being so great that it was a gift from god, like some kind of delicious candy, a kind of hedonistic reward from a paternal figure, so kindly given to us humans for our pleasure. It seemed twisted to me that he would think that god would behave like this. But I see what he was trying to get at now. That's the incredible transformational potential of LSD, it's ability to bring forth and amplify your own you-ness, to open your eyes to the such-ness of existence, to help us grow from this stage to the next. If it's a gift from god, it's more like a caring lesson in being a human, than a candy with a pat on the head.

At this point in my life I feel like I can see it more clearly for what it is. It's a potent force, it can be a gift from god, but that's not guaranteed either. On the whole, I really believe it's of net benefit to humanity - it's not for everyone, but for a vast many, it's a catalyst for growth and actualization.