Koch Brothers - Libertarianism In Practice

[Revolutionary Think]

 

[Revolutionary Think]

@Leo Gura Take a look at this. At least there's someone on the conservative Fox News side speaking out against big business. 

 

[Leo Gura]

@Revolutionary Think Tucker Carlson is the worst of the worst. He is speaking out against big business from below, not above.

Everything out of his mouth is horseshit on stilts. Devilry at its finest.

Listening to him will corrupt your mind.

[Revolutionary Think]

Can you provide specific examples? 

[Revolutionary Think]

12 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Listening to him will corrupt your mind.

Alright he doesn't deserve to be listened to anymore.

https://www.counterpunch.org/2014/05/09/the-moral-and-practical-failures-of-libertarianism-and-small-government-conservatism/  

[Bodigger]

58 minutes ago, Revolutionary Think said:

Alright he doesn't deserve to be listened to anymore.

https://www.counterpunch.org/2014/05/09/the-moral-and-practical-failures-of-libertarianism-and-small-government-conservatism/  

People helping people is much more effective rather than government helping people.  I wonder if we will ever have a choice in which non-profit organizations our tax money would go toward.  Maybe the government could give the tax payers a list of them, and then we could choose a handful of organizations.  Government makes these choices for us now, why not allow us to choose.  Just a thought...

[Forestluv]

21:00-23:00 is a great example of delusional blue. He says "I'm liberal on this. . . " and tries to look at orange/green from blue. He doesn't want to use a traditional blue frame in which homosexuality is immoral and should be illegal. My hunch is that he wants to come across as being at a "higher level". An intellectual that is credible and relevant. That is in the mainstream cutting-edge game and a counter-point to someone like AOC. Yet it's so obvious that he is Blue trying to rationalize low conscious blue values by trying to appear Orange or Green. Blue will eat this stuff up because it gives them cover as they marginalize and ostracize "the other".

[Forestluv]

2 hours ago, Bodigger said:

People helping people is much more effective rather than government helping people. 

How did that go over for slavery?. . . .

It won't work unless the average conscious level of a society is Green. At that point people helping people and government helping people are both effective. 

[Bodigger]

37 minutes ago, Serotoninluv said:

It won't work unless the average conscious level of a society is Green.

I'm not sure where I am on SD but this comment represents what I am striving for.  Does this make sense to you@Serotoninluv

[Bodigger]

41 minutes ago, Serotoninluv said:

He doesn't want to use a traditional blue frame in which homosexuality is immoral and should be illegal.

@Serotoninluv I don't think it should be illegal, I don't think it is healthy for me.  So....where does that fall into SD?

[Forestluv]

57 minutes ago, Bodigger said:

I'm not sure where I am on SD but this comment represents what I am striving for.  Does this make sense to you@Serotoninluv

Yep. I should qualify the statement by saying "mature" Green. There is an immature/unhealthy form of Green that is not helpful.

At stage Blue, people helping people can be work in a limited context. For example, people within a Catholic community helping each other out. Blue is community centered. The problem with Blue is that "community" is contracted - this sets up "my" community and "their" community and a desire to keep my community segregated from their community. This has an inherent conflict and is vulnerable to devolving in red - blue is just one level higher than red. There is a tendency to devolve into tribalism. 

At stage Orange, a person/society is individual centered. "What's in it for me?" is the attitude. This causes an obvious problem for "people helping people" because Orange is focused on helping themselves. They see life as transactional. They want more wealth, security, knowledge, rewards, fame etc. for themself. They may help others so they themself look good or out of guilt - yet there natural orientation is not to help others. We can't rely on Orange to help others. A second problem is that Orange level government becomes corrupt. Our current government is becoming more toxic Orange. Most politicians are Orange and are in it to benefit - to gain personal power, fame and wealth. Orange-centered government is ineffective at helping people because the politicians are oriented toward helping themselves.

At Green, there is a shift back toward community - similar to Blue. Yet Green community is expanded from Blue. Blue sense of community may be their religious group. A green community is much more diverse and it is not forced diversity. Green has transcended barriers and actually likes and appreciates inclusion and diversity. It is not something they tolerate or think they "should" do. An example may be a community that is "spiritual but not religious" in which they are open and interested in insights from various religions and spiritualities. Various ethnicities and life experiences would be welcomed. Another example is many concerts. I've been to concerts in which everyone was loving each other and in harmony. It didn't matter if I wore rags or a button down shirt. I was loved. It didn't matter if I could dance or if I smoked weed. People are really loving to each other (not tolerating each other). . . A problem with Green is that they often look down on Orange and Blue and mock them. Or they may be condescending or stigmatize Blue and Orange. Also, Green can be impatient for progress and often wants big leaps. If they get too aggressive for progress, it comes across as trying to "force" others to bend to their will.

53 minutes ago, Bodigger said:

I don't think it should be illegal, I don't think it is healthy for me.  So....where does that fall into SD?

 In terms of sexuality: 

Strong Blue would stigmatize and moralize the "other". For example, homosexuals and transgenders are unnatural and immoral. God made men and women to be heterosexual.

Moderate Blue: "Hate the sin, love the sinner". A step up from above, yet not by much. Also, tolerating homosexuals and transgenders. This level support segregation, "separate but equal", "the sanctity of marriage" and religious exemption laws. They often don't want to be perceived as bigots in Orange-centered society so veil their values and feelings. 

Orange: Individual centered. Believe people should do what they personally want. The religious judgement has dissolved. Orange is cool with people partying, having lots of sex, straight sex, gay sex, making big money as a lobbyist. Intellectually, they know that homosexuality is biologically natural and occurs in every species of animal. Orange would basically be indifferent to homosexuality or nonbinary gender (as long as it doesn't impose on themself individually). Orange are genuinely indifferent. They really don't care. Blue may try and come across as being indifferent or accepting, yet they are still judging. . . For example, my mom tries to come across as an accepting person and says people should be allowed to love whoever they want. Love is love. Yet one day I mentioned that it would be nice if my (gay) cousin and his husband could fly out to New Jersey and visit the family. At first my mom was like "that would be nice". And then she tensed up and firmly said "yet they wouldn't be allowed to stay in this house". My mom is still blue on this issue.

Green is another level higher. Even if a green person is oriented toward heterosexuality, they like inclusion and diversity. This is the first stage that transcends categories of heterosexual or homosexual or bisexual or transgender. Blue moralizes, yet Green understands moral relativism. A green community includes ALL of these sexual orientations. Green is not tolerant or indifferent to different sexual orientations. They all love each other. Yet this love is transcendent and more expansive to Blue level love of "Love the sinner, hate the sin". At Orange, the "sinner" and "sin" dissolves and at Green, love reappears. At Green, love is much less conditional than at Orange or Blue. 

[Bodigger]

@Serotoninluv Thank you.  This helps me understand where I have been, where I am now, and where I am looking toward.  Watching the videos and doing the work has helped, but getting involved in the forums helps with many things, such as mindfulness with the action of dealing with people.