Koch Brothers - Libertarianism In Practice

[Andrew Rogers]

4 minutes ago, Serotoninluv said:

You are seeing this from a privileged perspective. You have the privilege of not seeing it through another's perspective that has to carry the burden. You have the privilege of sitting at your computer and pontificating about how others should just take responsibility and pick themselves up by their bootstraps. If that is how you want to express your privilege, that is your right. Yet I think it's a self-centered low conscious expression of privilege. Yet you cannot help it, since your perspective is contracted into your own experience and beliefs - which have been conditioned into you. And you are not aware of this. It is subconscious. 

Sounds like a neo-Marxist mumbo-jumbo. Does it mean if someone has achieved something, then its because of his "privilege" and he can not give advice to other people??? wtf. such attitude leads to resentment and anger, rather then productive life.

Usually in reality it is the other way around - one is overthinking his problems and can not see a solution. While a person who has already achieved the desired goal, can help by telling what one should do.

Edited August 30, 2019 by Andrew Rogers

[Forestluv]

44 minutes ago, Andrew Rogers said:

Sounds like a neo-Marxist mumbo-jumbo. Does it mean if someone has achieved something, then its because of his "privilege" and he can not give advice to other people??? wtf. such attitude leads to resentment and anger, rather then productive life.

That is how it is perceived from a self-centered individualistic perspective. In SD theory of consciousness, this would be stage Orange. 

As I stated, you are not aware of your privilege. From a self-centered perspective, one will not want to introspect their privilege. It's a very challenging thing to do because it is threatening to self preservation. I have been through this developmental stage and understand it.

The next stage of psychological development and consciousness expansion involves understanding other perspectives - not just in intellectual theory - but also in direct experience and embodiment. If you spent 10 years in inner city Chicago living in a poverty-stricken community, your mind would expand. You would broaden your understanding beyond your current contracted theory. I'm a white male that currently lives in a predominantly black poverty-stricken community. As well, I have lived in a poverty community in Honduras. I am telling you that there are things you are unaware of. Yet, you aren't open or willing to expand your understanding and consciousness. 

This development is essential for forming holistic and systemic understanding.

I'm not here to argue within a highly contracted self-centered Orange narrative. That would only reinforce your contracted mindset. The deeper value of this thread is to reveal what a highly contracted stage Orange mindset looks like and what is needed to evolve upward. You are unaware of your potential for growth - growth that would be more fulfilling than you can imagine.  If that does not interest you, fine. Yet I have a hunch there are others on the forum that are interested.

[Aeris]

5 minutes ago, Andrew Rogers said:

Sounds like a neo-Marxist mumbo-jumbo. Does it mean if someone has achieved something, then its because of his "privilege" and he can not give advice to other people??? wtf. such attitude leads to resentment and anger, rather then productive life.

Post modernism is above orange. But that's how you believe we think ( that we are post modernist : not the case 

It is an half truth

cause your belief system ( culture programming : like a computer ) That's not the case. We transcended this basic programming for self programming. ( And still work on it )

[Paulus Amadeus]

@Andrew Rogers Dude you have so many weird assumptions about what a more progressive government looks like and how government works.

I especially like the ‘government stealing your money, and then giving it back flamboyantly’ part.

I don’t know much about politics at all, but you are truly living in fantasy land.

[Andrew Rogers]

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I especially like the ‘government stealing your money, and then giving it back flamboyantly’ part.

And where do you think it is getting the money for different subsidies?

Quote

In SD theory of consciousness, this would be stage Orange. 

There are scientific theories, like evolution, which is based on reality and, therefor, is falsifiable ( for example, if human fossils would be found together with dinosaur fossils ).

In your case - the 'sd theory' is just some arbitrary bullshit some guy came up with to prove his own preexisting believes in socialism. It certainly is not falsifiable, because for every argument you can reply with "you are just too ignorant and don't want to let go of your notions".

I see it as either you are a strong healthy-individualist, who is able to take responsibility for his life and others around him, leading them by example. Or you are a wimpy liberal, who blames everybody else for all your problems.

If you teach a 15 yo kid from the hood to take responsibility and to be strong - he will have a chance to make something out of himself.

Take David Goggins for example. He came from a very, very bad background, but by taking responsibility he achieved greatness.

On the other hand, if you teach that kid to be passive, to blame other people for his shortcomings, and explain his own failures with lack of some mysterious privilege - he would grow up to be a very bitter, resentful and impotent individual.

 

 

 

 

[Paulus Amadeus]

@Andrew Rogers I’m obviously aware that government programs are paid for by taxes. I just find the picture you paint of this process false and pretty absurd.

[Bodigger]

32 minutes ago, Paulus Amadeus said:

@Andrew Rogers I’m obviously aware that government programs are paid for by taxes. I just find the picture you paint of this process false and pretty absurd.

Not sure if it is absurd.

You may be okay with abortion 30 days after birth.  I may be against abortion in any case.  Are either of these absurd, or just different.

[SerpaeTetra]

19 minutes ago, Bodigger said:

Not sure if it is absurd.

You may be okay with abortion 30 days after birth.  I may be against abortion in any case.  Are either of these absurd, or just different.

Yes, abortion 30 days after birth is absurd/impossible, since abortion is the ending of pregnancy by removal of embryo or fetus.  If you aren't female, you really should keep your opinion to yourself in regards to this matter.

[Forestluv]

25 minutes ago, Bodigger said:

You may be okay with abortion 30 days after birth.  

That is not abortion, that is infanticide.

Abortion is the termination of life during embryonic and fetal stages, not infant stages.

[Bodigger]

3 minutes ago, SerpaeTetra said:

Yes, abortion 30 days after birth is absurd/impossible, since abortion is the ending of pregnancy by removal of embryo or fetus.  If you aren't female, you really should keep your opinion to yourself in regards to this matter.

Seriously.....I was giving extreme examples to make a point.  And, okay, I should really not talk about abortion because seriously.....I'm not a woman.

[Bodigger]

3 minutes ago, Serotoninluv said:

That is not abortion, that is infanticide.

Abortion is the termination of life during embryonic and fetal stages, not infant stages.

the states of New York and Virginia call that abortion.  Does it really make a difference if it is 1, 2, or 30 days?

[Forestluv]

16 minutes ago, Bodigger said:

the states of New York and Virginia call that abortion.  

Abortion is the termination of a pregnancy. If you would like to debate on this issue, be intellectually honest.

16 minutes ago, Bodigger said:

Does it really make a difference if it is 1, 2, or 30 days?

Yes.

Would you consider the death penalty for a 20 y.o. murderer to be "abortion"?

You are presenting an unconventional use of a term as a if it was conventional.  This manipulates a narrative and is intellectually dishonest. Use terms in their proper context. 

[Nivsch]

2 hours ago, Andrew Rogers said:

While a person who has already achieved the desired goal, can help by telling what one should do.

You said it right - can help!

Thats why we need a sensitive society and not just libertarianism, because people ARE need help from others from time to time, and not everyone can just "push himself" and quit poverty 

Edited August 30, 2019 by Nivsch

[Bodigger]

2 minutes ago, Serotoninluv said:

Recontextualizing terms to manipulate a narrative is not being intellectually honest. Use terms in their proper context.

New York State has passed law stating that if a baby is born during, or with the intension of, an abortion, the mother and doctor shall consult.  If the conclusion is that the mother does not want the baby, the baby shall be left to die.  The reason I used 30 days is because, the baby could possibly live that long.  I was only giving an extreme example to make a point.  Reflecting back I should have been more clear that it was only an example and not an opinion.  I think some triggers went off with some people.  Don't worry, it's just an ego LOL

[Forestluv]

9 hours ago, Bodigger said:

I was only giving an extreme example to make a point. 

All conventional terms can be used unconventionally. That is not the issue. You portrayed an unconventional usage of a key term as if it was conventional. This is intellectually dishonest - and in this case moderately inflammatory and borderline trolling. 

[Andrew Rogers]

12 hours ago, Paulus Amadeus said:

@Andrew Rogers I’m obviously aware that government programs are paid for by taxes. I just find the picture you paint of this process false and pretty absurd.

And how do you think it happens then?

[Revolutionary Think]

"Growth for the sake of growth is the ideology of a cancer cell" Edward Abbey

[remember]

On 8/30/2019 at 6:59 PM, SerpaeTetra said:

Yes, abortion 30 days after birth is absurd/impossible, since abortion is the ending of pregnancy by removal of embryo or fetus.  If you aren't female, you really should keep your opinion to yourself in regards to this matter.

this is how twisted words can get. the same as calling something lawful stealing, or legalizing crimes. there is really something like proportionality in every system that if out of balance speaks of an ill system. proportionalities are not only of importance when people walk through a door but also in sense of calling a country wealthy when it isn`t even able to maintain wealth for a huge part of society.

On 8/30/2019 at 5:01 PM, Andrew Rogers said:

Sounds like a neo-Marxist mumbo-jumbo

it`s generally funny how neo-liberalism seems to rather be neo-colonialism and neo-imperialism the last neo in these directions was neo-naziism - how funny that these words fit so perfectly to your picture of neo-marxism. but generally speaking even hitler wouldn`t have made it without taxes at least not far.

don`t even know if this even is orange as it`s so beige.

Edited September 1, 2019 by remember

[Andrew Rogers]

Quote

it`s generally funny how neo-liberalism seems to rather be neo-colonialism and neo-imperialism the last neo in these directions was neo-naziism - how funny that these words fit so perfectly to your picture of neo-marxism. but generally speaking even hitler wouldn`t have made it without taxes at least not far.

don`t even know if this even is orange as it`s so beige.

Doesn't make sense. Be more specific.

[remember]

3 hours ago, Andrew Rogers said:

Doesn't make sense. Be more specific.

you don`t make sense that`s why you don`t understand it - if you don`t try to understand you can`t solve the riddle.