Koch Brothers - Libertarianism In Practice

[Andrew Rogers]

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This is Orange looking at red/blue and assumes a low level of consciousness. You haven't seen or embodied Green yet. It is a higher level of consciousness.

I think that color representation chart is bullshit and has little to do with reality.

It might be representative as a concept of a life cycle, i.e. after "green", instead of going to live in a turquoise eternal bliss, the society is taken over by red/blue barbarians, as it happened in Rome and is now happening the western Europe.

[Forestluv]

3 minutes ago, Andrew Rogers said:

I think that color representation chart is bullshit and has little to do with reality.

Of course you do. That's how Orange looks at Green. You want to control the narrative.

In other words, you would like to maintain your current level of consciousness, which is based and restricted on individual freedom, logic, rational thought, evidence, facts etc. Milton Friedman and Ayn Rand stuff. There are more expansive levels of consciousness.

[Andrew Rogers]

Just now, Serotoninluv said:

Of course you do. That's how Orange looks at Green.

In other words, you would like to maintain your current level of consciousness, which is based and restricted on individual freedom, logic, rational thought, evidence, facts etc. Milton Friedman and Ayn Rand stuff. There are more expansive levels of consciousness.

Was this "level green" ever sustained in real world? Where, when? If not, then maybe it is just an illusion?

 

Now we're getting somewhere. Check how many billionaires support Trump (Hell, all his Office is essentially full of them), Biden, Buttigeg, Kamala and so on. The funding they receive through loopholes is essentially this "bribery" .Then look at Bernie's - zero. He has an Anti-Endorsement list of all the billionaires that spoke against him. 

This will be the last chip from me. We don't need to carry this on

You do have a few logical fallacies here.

Edited August 29, 2019 by Andrew Rogers

[Forestluv]

6 minutes ago, Andrew Rogers said:

Was this "level green" ever sustained in real world? Where, when? If not, then maybe it is just an illusion?

That's some neon Orange.

Evolution of consciousness is a major component of SD. Evolution over the history of time as well as an individual's lifetime.

In this context, of course there are no Green-centered nations. We haven't evolved there yet! That is like asking if there has ever been android communities. . . 

[Andrew Rogers]

4 minutes ago, Ero said:

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Some of my great grandfathers did well and some did not.  I don't know too much about their lives tbh to be able to compare.

Look at the whole generation.

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someone who was contributing vast amounts of beneficial knowledge, experience, talent and genius to our society.  So I do feel that there should be more benefits awarded towards those people so that they have the incentive to contribute, because you need something to work towards. 

Well, that's how the system of free market capitalism work - you earn as much, as other people value your work. No more, no less.

 

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But I don't think that power should get so out of control that someone has the ability to damage my well-being

Such power usually lies in the hand of the government, much, much less in corporations. Therefor - less government - less possibility to damage you.

[Andrew Rogers]

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In this context, of course there are no Green-centered nations. We haven't evolved there yet! That is like asking if there has ever been android communities. . . 

From history we usually see that when a nation turns from "orange capitalism" to "green socialism" - it either collapses on itself or is taken over by barbarians, like Sweden.

Therefor "level green" certainly is achievable, when a nation has more wealth, then it needs, but it seems more of a terminal stage, not something desirable.

 

 

 

Edited August 29, 2019 by Andrew Rogers

[abundance]

Future generations will regard the Koch brothers as criminals against humanity. 

[Bodigger]

2 hours ago, abundance said:

Future generations will regard the Koch brothers as criminals against humanity. 

Interesting....This reminds me of how regard our forefathers here in the U.S.  They were ahead of their time in that generation yet all we see of them now is that they were slave owners.

[Bodigger]

2 hours ago, Andrew Rogers said:

From history we usually see that when a nation turns from "orange capitalism" to "green socialism" - it either collapses on itself or is taken over by barbarians, like Sweden.

Therefor "level green" certainly is achievable, when a nation has more wealth, then it needs, but it seems more of a terminal stage, not something desirable.

This is why I think things need to take place slowly and not too fast.  Too fast and orange takes over.  Or worse, blue makes you suffer for it.  Or worse yet, red kills everyone in it.

[Forestluv]

4 hours ago, Andrew Rogers said:

From history we usually see that when a nation turns from "orange capitalism" to "green socialism" - it either collapses on itself or is taken over by barbarians, like Sweden.

There has never been "Green socialism" before. It is evolving for the first time in human history. No country in the world is Green-centered. It will be more advanced than previous Blue socialism and Orange capitalism.

4 hours ago, Andrew Rogers said:

Therefor "level green" certainly is achievable, when a nation has more wealth, then it needs, but it seems more of a terminal stage, not something desirable.

This is a short-sighted view. That is like someone in the 15th century saying the emerging Renaissance would be a terminal stage. Not even close. Green is just scratching the surface. And Yellow is where things start to get real interesting.

Orange sees Green as undesirable, yet when one embodies Green it is no longer undesirable. One "gets it". What you are not taking into consideration is that Green is more developed than Red and Blue. Orange does not understand higher stages of development. It often misunderstands Green as being Blue. Green socialism is hard to imagine through an Orange lens. Yet the key is, the people are different. They have an expanded consciousness.

Green will be more advanced and healthier, because they have a higher understanding and embodiment of community. They can better see how they are not only an individual, yet a component of a larger community. This will include corporations. Eventually corporations will be Green. Green-level CEOs will not be screwing people over because they will place community higher than personal profit. Not because of regulations or because they are forced to. Because that is their beingness. They are genuinely kind to themself and others because they are starting to see/emody the inter-connectedness between self and other. In 100 years or so, the consciousness will be Green-centered and they will look back at self-centered toxic capitalism as barbaric. Just like we view tribal human sacrifices as barbaric. . . The illusion of a separate self will begin to dissolve at a population level. All this "me, me, me" and "us vs. them" will dissolve as people wake up to our true nature. Collective is more than a theory. It is a consciousness and beingness. Milton Friedman had good intentions for capitalism and collective welfare, yet he didn't fully consider the toxicity of excessive capitalism. These excesses didn't exist during his lifetime. Eventually, free capitalism would implode on itself.

As a simple exercise: imagine each cell in your body was self-centered. Each cell was motivated for it's own survival and personal gain. That would be very unhealthy to the organism. It is cancer. . . Now imagine cells cooperating together for the functioning of a human body. This is a major transformational and energetic shift which is much healthier for both individual cells and the collective human body. Currently, most people see themselves as separate "cells" motivated for their own survival and personal gain. The next level of consciousness, people will become aware of themself within the higher collective consciousness of society. This is a transformational awakening and will lead to a major energetic shift, which is much healthier for the individual person and the collective community.

[Nivsch]

5 hours ago, Ero said:

I seriously fail to see how could there ever be a connection between the two. 

?

[Nivsch]

7 hours ago, Girzo said:

Million. The government has enormous power to negotiate prices. I don't know how it is in the US, but in my country, the energy grid is public and regulated, so this gives an enormous upper-hand for the rulers. The government can fund it's own research into technology if the one available is not efficient and too pricey. They can forcefully divide the lobbying organization, so they have to compete fairly, etc. I am not a specialist there.

It seems like a non-issue currently, too. Compared to the already existing, filthy rich oil and coal lobby, no "green" lobbyist can even start to compete. Many green companies are run by a completely different set of values and wouldn't do it even if they could. Don't assume equality there. Quite the contrary, if you leave the current system in place you can be 100% sure the oil lobby will try to pull the thing you are worried about, increase the price of green energy 2x when the fossil fuels run out.

The whole idea of "minimal government is the only solution to the clean energy issue" is pure ideology. "Germany has economical issues after the war. There is only one solution! Eradicate Jews." I am not saying the idea is as bad as what Hitler has done, just pointing out a pattern.

What we need is not less government, but a more effective and natural one, less hierarchical, less corrupted, more in the hands of people.

So how can we move on to green energy? I see it is much more difficult to imply on high scales. Maybe the koch brothers are right in this case and there is no more efficient way to produce electric energy today?

Maybe in the future the green technology will have the capacity to produce high scales electricity.

 

Edited August 29, 2019 by Nivsch

[Apparition of Jack]

2 hours ago, Bodigger said:

Interesting....This reminds me of how regard our forefathers here in the U.S.  They were ahead of their time in that generation yet all we see of them now is that they were slave owners.

The Koch brothers aren't even ahead of their time though. In fact, they are quite regressive. 

A more apt example would be slave owners who opposed the revolution because they liked the monarchy. 

[Girzo]

@Nivsch That green future won't happen until you put money into researching it. So the Koch brothers are anything but right because they undermine the efforts.

This technology might not be available right now, but you know what? We have put people on the Moon. That technology wasn't there at the time too. I believe we can do it. I believe we can do it during our lifetimes. People are awesome.

[Apparition of Jack]

6 minutes ago, Girzo said:

@Nivsch That green future won't happen until you put money into researching it. So the Koch brothers are anything but right because they undermine the efforts.

This technology might not be available right now, but you know what? We have put people on the Moon. That technology wasn't there at the time too. I believe we can do it. I believe we can do it during our lifetimes. People are awesome.

The funny thing is the technology IS here right now. It's being deliberately suppressed by the fossil fuel industry though, since it out-performs and is much cheaper than anything the fossil fuel industry has to offer. 

If people think fossil fuels are still viable then they're deluding themselves. We have everything we need to make the switch to renewables overnight. The the problem is corruption and devilry. 

[Girzo]

5 hours ago, Andrew Rogers said:

From history we usually see that when a nation turns from "orange capitalism" to "green socialism" - it either collapses on itself or is taken over by barbarians, like Sweden.

You have never been to Sweden, it is clear as daylight. Total bullshit. I will take Sweden's 8 terrorist attacks with 10 people dead over 10 years (!) over the US' mass shootings every day.

Sweden is overtaken neither by barbarians nor Islam.

[Girzo]

38 minutes ago, Keyhole said:

That's the first gen, their kids will be integrated so long as they are not segregated. 

They won't get integrated. They are asylum seekers, they will get sent back when the war in Syria ends.

 

[Leo Gura]

Do not confuse 20th century socialist revolutions with stage Green. They were not Green but Red and Blue in many cases, as in Soviet Russia or Maoist China.

[How to be wise]

@Leo Gura David Koch is gone. There’s no need to continue attacking him.

[Leo Gura]

12 minutes ago, How to be wise said:

@Leo Gura David Koch is gone. There’s no need to continue attacking him.

The Kochtopus is still thriving. It goes way beyond any one individual. It's an ideology and a super-organism that takes on a life of its own.

Similar to The Family Netflix documentary. Just because Doug Kho is dead, doesn't mean The Family isn't a big problem in politics.

Likewise with Trumpism. Trumpism will be a problem even after Trump leaves office because it is a larger ideological force.

It's not about attacking Trump, it's about making people aware of the larger systemic forces and self-deceptions at work which lead to devils like Trump and Koch bros to thrive.