Need help about self discipline

[lennart]

What do you think about having rigorous routines for somone who is very obsessive about routines. I am struggling with feelings of guilt after indulging into „negative“ behaviour like eating an unhealthy meal or missing my daily meditation practice etc. 

I am also a perfectionist which goes with having very high expections on myself so it is hard for me to stick to things like daily meditation because I get discouraged after a while because there is little to no progress ( which is probably normal in the beginning). I also have the tendency to wanting to do very much in the beginning. Like meditating daily. Making a green smothey in the morning. Studying daily etc. So what would you recommend? To just let myself try to do all of these things at the same time or to go against my urge to do all these things at the same time and focus only on one thing like meditation and do that for an extended period of time like a year or so and then add another habit? 

I would appreciate your thoughts!

[B_Naz]

What I would suggest you to do is to work on your life purpose. You should have a literal mental image of yourself at your best, at your self-actualized best. This is so that when you do go off track and start indulging in negative behaviour, you can remind yourself what you are working for, that is, you're ultimate best. Also when you finally figured out what you want truly want to do, the routines and positive behaviour will come naturally.

For example, if you had fastfood for dinner, don't feel bad about it or guilty. Remind yourself of what you are working for (the life purpose) and learn from your mistakes. It gets to a point where you will actually physically feel sick from eating fastfood

So my suggestion would be to work on your life-purpose, create and visualize that image/purpose and remind yourself everytime you mess up

[SerpaeTetra]

Every time you do one of the negative behaviors, say "I choose to miss my mediation" or "i choose to eat McDonalds, instead of saying "I shouldn't have done____" ,after doing the behavior.  It just adds to more guilt and confusion in your mind.  Realize that its your nature to do certain things like this, but still work on the habit.  I think working on one habit for at least a month or two makes more sense than adding many new habits.

[lennart]

53 minutes ago, SerpaeTetra said:

Every time you do one of the negative behaviors, say "I choose to miss my mediation" or "i choose to eat McDonalds, instead of saying "I shouldn't have done____" ,after doing the behavior.  It just adds to more guilt and confusion in your mind.  Realize that its your nature to do certain things like this, but still work on the habit.  I think working on one habit for at least a month or two makes more sense than adding many new habits.

Yea thats a good idea to do one habit first for an extended period of time.

[kieranperez]

Self-discipline, responsibility, commitment, and integrity I personally find some of, if not the most, powerful principles and qualities to cultivate. 

I find in my own experience, what disempowers me from having greater self-discipline is my lack of integrity. Why is this important? Well, self-discipline is relevant when by definition there moments (long or short) in your experience when undergoing an activity where you really deeply don't want to keep doing it anymore and you exert mental discipline to keep going and stay focused. Discipline is largely an issue when you lack integrity because your word doesn't have much power. 

Let's take a quick sidetrack to give an example of what I mean.

When a yogi, monk, etc. (someone really trying to take on full responsibility for their consciousness towards enlightenment) goes to meditate for long periods of time, that takes a very high commitment. Think about the integrity one has to have with their own word and commitment to follow through on such an endeavor. To sit their in agony and stay focused with a silent mind, still body, and unwavering focus to stay curious and open to what's true, regardless of survival threats, how much pain they may be in, etc. They are THERE and will not budge.

That takes an extraordinary amount of integrity, commitment, responsibility, and discipline. You have to know that you WILL do it. If your words and commitment don't have power, it's likely because you don't trust your word. You can't not know that. However, people (like myself) who are intimidated by the amount of patient work it may take to start being honest with themselves and start trusting themselves tend to want to ignore such process and keep making commitments that require degrees of discipline they can't handle. Thus the cycle repeats. 

So how do you start becoming more disciplined? I would suggest, as I myself am practicing now, start by being honest with yourself. 

[lennart]

6 hours ago, kieranperez said:

Self-discipline, responsibility, commitment, and integrity I personally find some of, if not the most, powerful principles and qualities to cultivate. 

I find in my own experience, what disempowers me from having greater self-discipline is my lack of integrity. Why is this important? Well, self-discipline is relevant when by definition there moments (long or short) in your experience when undergoing an activity where you really deeply don't want to keep doing it anymore and you exert mental discipline to keep going and stay focused. Discipline is largely an issue when you lack integrity because your word doesn't have much power. 

Let's take a quick sidetrack to give an example of what I mean.

When a yogi, monk, etc. (someone really trying to take on full responsibility for their consciousness towards enlightenment) goes to meditate for long periods of time, that takes a very high commitment. Think about the integrity one has to have with their own word and commitment to follow through on such an endeavor. To sit their in agony and stay focused with a silent mind, still body, and unwavering focus to stay curious and open to what's true, regardless of survival threats, how much pain they may be in, etc. They are THERE and will not budge.

That takes an extraordinary amount of integrity, commitment, responsibility, and discipline. You have to know that you WILL do it. If your words and commitment don't have power, it's likely because you don't trust your word. You can't not know that. However, people (like myself) who are intimidated by the amount of patient work it may take to start being honest with themselves and start trusting themselves tend to want to ignore such process and keep making commitments that require degrees of discipline they can't handle. Thus the cycle repeats. 

So how do you start becoming more disciplined? I would suggest, as I myself am practicing now, start by being honest with yourself. 

Yea I think I will just keep things at a slow pace so I wont be overwhelmed and have to back down later. Thanks 

[loub]

In eliminating bad habits it is crucial that you replace them with a healthy habit that fulfills a similar role. For example replacing excessive web-browsing with reading, or masturbation with meditation. You must be able to sorta satisfy the urge for the bad habit with the new healthy habit.

Also as has been said habit planning needs to be done long-term, one habit at a time. Don't rush this and don't overwhelm yourself. Have a clear picture of how you want to be and then be wise enough to be patient. Plant a habit for at least 30 days to 90 if it is hard to make it stick. Be very honest and proceed with the next one only once this one is completely incorporated. You can plant as many as 12 habits on one year that will serve you well for a lifetime.
Alternatively you are free to struggle with too many habits at once, fail to do it suffer backlashes and get nowhere during the course of that same year. I'm confident you have the wisdom to choose right here.

Best of luck to you, don't beat yourself up to much. Backlashes are only there to bring you some specific clarity you needed and to then thrust you forward in growth.

[lennart]

10 hours ago, B_Naz said:

What I would suggest you to do is to work on your life purpose. You should have a literal mental image of yourself at your best, at your self-actualized best. This is so that when you do go off track and start indulging in negative behaviour, you can remind yourself what you are working for, that is, you're ultimate best. Also when you finally figured out what you want truly want to do, the routines and positive behaviour will come naturally.

For example, if you had fastfood for dinner, don't feel bad about it or guilty. Remind yourself of what you are working for (the life purpose) and learn from your mistakes. It gets to a point where you will actually physically feel sick from eating fastfood

So my suggestion would be to work on your life-purpose, create and visualize that image/purpose and remind yourself everytime you mess up

I think my biggest goal or aim right now is to focus on building my health. Both physically and mentally. Because it seems to me that this is really the foundations for almost everything else that I want to achieve. So I guess I will be focusing on implementing a few (one at a time) habits that take me into this direction. 

[lennart]

2 hours ago, loub said:

In eliminating bad habits it is crucial that you replace them with a healthy habit that fulfills a similar role. For example replacing excessive web-browsing with reading, or masturbation with meditation. You must be able to sorta satisfy the urge for the bad habit with the new healthy habit.

Also as has been said habit planning needs to be done long-term, one habit at a time. Don't rush this and don't overwhelm yourself. Have a clear picture of how you want to be and then be wise enough to be patient. Plant a habit for at least 30 days to 90 if it is hard to make it stick. Be very honest and proceed with the next one only once this one is completely incorporated. You can plant as many as 12 habits on one year that will serve you well for a lifetime.
Alternatively you are free to struggle with too many habits at once, fail to do it suffer backlashes and get nowhere during the course of that same year. I'm confident you have the wisdom to choose right here.

Best of luck to you, don't beat yourself up to much. Backlashes are only there to bring you some specific clarity you needed and to then thrust you forward in growth.

Yeah and also I think tiny changes over a long period of time like 2-3 years can make such a big difference. Just the difference in the mentality is huge. Because a person who makes tiny changes into a meaningful direction will live and feel more purpousful and meaningful than a person who is not. So for now I have a 5 minute deep breathing/ mindfulness meditation that I want to commit to for at least one year. I am already doing it for about 50 days. After 90 days I will implement the next habit. Which will probably be a daily green smoothie or any greens/ vegetables either in raw form or smoothie form.

[B_Naz]

@lennart  That's awesome, have you tried going deeper into this goal? If you want to by physically fit, perhaps prepare to run a marathon, or try weightlifting, create the ultimate body that can endure any physical activity! If you want to be mentally healthy, then try and create emotional mastery. The reason I've been saying all of this is because you need to grasp the idea of what an actual vision is. An vision is you striving to be the absolute best human you can possibly be. I found that if you can find this vision and work on it, your behaviour will change rapidly. Master one thing, and move on.

I just found that if you have a vision that you are truly committed to, your body will send signals to try and achieve that (and your ego will fight, and that's ok, observe why it's fighting)

But it seems like you are very aware of your behaviours and actions. That awareness will help you out a lot, but it will only help if you stop feeling guilty and start questioning on why you're doing these behaviours

[lennart]

10 hours ago, B_Naz said:

@lennart  That's awesome, have you tried going deeper into this goal? If you want to by physically fit, perhaps prepare to run a marathon, or try weightlifting, create the ultimate body that can endure any physical activity! If you want to be mentally healthy, then try and create emotional mastery. The reason I've been saying all of this is because you need to grasp the idea of what an actual vision is. An vision is you striving to be the absolute best human you can possibly be. I found that if you can find this vision and work on it, your behaviour will change rapidly. Master one thing, and move on.

I just found that if you have a vision that you are truly committed to, your body will send signals to try and achieve that (and your ego will fight, and that's ok, observe why it's fighting)

But it seems like you are very aware of your behaviours and actions. That awareness will help you out a lot, but it will only help if you stop feeling guilty and start questioning on why you're doing these behaviours

May I ask what your vision is and which practices you do to get you there?

[B_Naz]

@lennart My vision is currently to be a software developer and make programs to help the world. I want to be like Elon Musk, creating crazy shit like artificial intelligent cars, and I want to create those sci-fi utopia societies like in Star Trek (those crazy these like a scanner detecting a broken bone). I want to literally create programs because it enables so much things to be done, like me replying to this thread since It wouldn't be possible without software and I want to contribute to that. Why? because I feel like I need to carry on the advancement of technology and reach to a technologically advanced society (btw I'm still a student, studying Computer Science, about to go into my 3rd year, since I failed to get an internship for the year, ahh well)

That's my main vision, but also my second vision which is a smaller goal of mine; to be bodybuilder. I love bodybuilding and building muscles, looking like an absolute unit (of course for me, not to show off, I've always been interested in muscles)

The practices I do are to program for around hour or two daily, and then to go to the gym/diet. I go to the gym 4x a week, and my diet has always been the same, eggs, oats, chicken, mixed vegs, rice/pasta, yoghurt, milk and soya. I've been very strict with it, and I've deprived myself from all fatty/junkfoods because that's what it will take for me to become strong and lean. I didn't need practice discipline to get this

I wouldn't have programmed or go to the gym without my vision. The vision keeps me going.

I don't meditate anymore, nor do any consciousness work. I have in the past and I have gained A LOT from it. I've stopped doing it because it wasn't part of my vision yet. It explored crazy issues like my existence and the meaning of literally everything. But these issues won't make me into a programmer or software developer. However it helped me understand who I am, how my emotions are, what my thoughts show, and it helped me create tools to diagnose myself. It also REALLY enforced my vision.

 

[lennart]

1 hour ago, B_Naz said:

@lennart My vision is currently to be a software developer and make programs to help the world. I want to be like Elon Musk, creating crazy shit like artificial intelligent cars, and I want to create those sci-fi utopia societies like in Star Trek (those crazy these like a scanner detecting a broken bone). I want to literally create programs because it enables so much things to be done, like me replying to this thread since It wouldn't be possible without software and I want to contribute to that. Why? because I feel like I need to carry on the advancement of technology and reach to a technologically advanced society (btw I'm still a student, studying Computer Science, about to go into my 3rd year, since I failed to get an internship for the year, ahh well)

That's my main vision, but also my second vision which is a smaller goal of mine; to be bodybuilder. I love bodybuilding and building muscles, looking like an absolute unit (of course for me, not to show off, I've always been interested in muscles)

The practices I do are to program for around hour or two daily, and then to go to the gym/diet. I go to the gym 4x a week, and my diet has always been the same, eggs, oats, chicken, mixed vegs, rice/pasta, yoghurt, milk and soya. I've been very strict with it, and I've deprived myself from all fatty/junkfoods because that's what it will take for me to become strong and lean. I didn't need practice discipline to get this

I wouldn't have programmed or go to the gym without my vision. The vision keeps me going.

I don't meditate anymore, nor do any consciousness work. I have in the past and I have gained A LOT from it. I've stopped doing it because it wasn't part of my vision yet. It explored crazy issues like my existence and the meaning of literally everything. But these issues won't make me into a programmer or software developer. However it helped me understand who I am, how my emotions are, what my thoughts show, and it helped me create tools to diagnose myself. It also REALLY enforced my vision.

 

That is pretty awesome. I too want to build muscles and become lean. But first I need to fix some joint problems I got through mobility training.

I definitely also want to go into the direction of consciousness and enlightenment although that will still take a veeeery long time. ?

[B_Naz]

@lennart If you have the vision, I think the discipline will come. Could you imagine yourself meditating on top of a fucking mountain? You can do it dude! Goodluck