Leo, what would you do if you were able to alter the illusion?

[Sempiternity]

Leo, you seem to be trying to achieve raising your consciousness to the point where you can alter the illusion at will, be able to manifest objects, create legit miracles, and alter all of humanity at the collective consciousness level. What specifically would you do if you reach any of these levels? Do you have a plan? 

I'm guessing no human, except maybe Jesus or Buddha if they ever even existed, has gotten anywhere close to these levels of consciousness. So if you were to become one of the first, you could literally alter all of humanity. So what would you do?  Be honest  

Edited August 20, 2019 by Jed Vassallo

[Meditationdude]

3 hours ago, Jed Vassallo said:

Leo, you seem to be trying to achieve raising your consciousness to the point where you can alter the illusion at will

@Jed Vassallo no he doesn’t.   

 

[Sempiternity]

3 hours ago, Meditationdude said:

no he doesn’t.  

He talks about this at great length in some of his Blog episode.

https://www.actualized.org/insights/tapping-into-collective-consciousness

[Leo Gura]

The point of such abilities, besides the pure understanding of them, is to move mankind to greater self-realization.

Altering the illusion is totally unnecessary. And yet if you could move more people to realize love, that would be the highest motivation, and you would do whatever is in your power towards that end.

[Truth Addict]

Looks like you're living in an illusion 

I'm not.

[Sempiternity]

44 minutes ago, Truth Addict said:

Looks like you're living in an illusion 

I'm not.

Who is the "I" that is not  

[Truth Addict]

1 minute ago, Jed Vassallo said:

Who is the "I" that is not  

A metaphor 

[pluto]

The Buddha and Jesus realize the pointlessness is manipulating because when you are these high levels you realize that by "just being" your true self, everything falls into place in divine harmony. Manipulating it would only delay and distort it further.

Creation is perfect, it cannot make mistakes.

[Truth Addict]

19 minutes ago, pluto said:

The Buddha and Jesus realize the pointlessness is manipulating because when you are these high levels you realize that by "just being" your true self, everything falls into place in divine harmony. Manipulating it would only delay and distort it further.

Creation is perfect, it cannot make mistakes.

What if manipulation is my true self?

[Sempiternity]

18 minutes ago, pluto said:

The Buddha and Jesus realize the pointlessness is manipulating because when you are these high levels you realize that by "just being" your true self, everything falls into place in divine harmony. Manipulating it would only delay and distort it further.

Creation is perfect, it cannot make mistakes.

What you're saying here many, including Leo, has said. But I have no way of understanding this, which can be frustrating. Things like this can only be experienced, not known by the 'mind'. 

[Leo Gura]

3 hours ago, pluto said:

The Buddha and Jesus realize the pointlessness is manipulating

Both of them did a lot of manipulating, which is the only reason we speak of them today.

If what you say was true they would have just gone off to die in the wildness and no one would have known their name.

Jesus' and Buddha's manipulations are still rippling through consciousness to this day!

[Esoteric]

@Leo Gura

Swami Vivekananda has written a bit about this in his book Bhakti Yoga. He writes about Ishvara, the creator aspect of Divinity, in one section. Whatever is the case, it's an interesting read.

 https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/The_Complete_Works_of_Swami_Vivekananda/Volume_3/Bhakti-Yoga/The_Philosophy_of_Ishvara

Quote

In the fourth Pâda of the fourth chapter of his Sutras, after stating the almost infinite power and knowledge which will come to the liberated soul after the attainment of Moksha, Vyâsa makes the remark, in an aphorism, that none, however, will get the power of creating, ruling, and dissolving the universe, because that belongs to God alone. In explaining the Sutra it is easy for the dualistic commentators to show how it is ever impossible for a subordinate soul, Jiva, to have the infinite power and total independence of God. The thorough dualistic commentator Madhvâchârya deals with this passage in his usual summary method by quoting a verse from the Varâha Purâna.

In explaining this aphorism the commentator Râmânuja says, "This doubt being raised, whether among the powers of the liberated souls is included that unique power of the Supreme One, that is, of creation etc. of the universe and even the Lordship of all, or whether, without that, the glory of the liberated consists only in the direct perception of the Supreme One, we get as an argument the following: It is reasonable that the liberated get the Lordship of the universe, because the scriptures say, 'He attains to extreme sameness with the Supreme One and all his desires are realised.' Now extreme sameness and realisation of all desires cannot be attained without the unique power of the Supreme Lord, namely, that of governing the universe. Therefore, to attain the realisation of all desires and the extreme sameness with the Supreme, we must all admit that the liberated get the power of ruling the whole universe. To this we reply, that the liberated get all the powers except that of ruling the universe. Ruling the universe is guiding the form and the life and the desires of all the sentient and the non-sentient beings. The liberated ones from whom all that veils His true nature has been removed, only enjoy the unobstructed perception of the Brahman, but do not possess the power of ruling the universe. This is proved from the scriptural text, "From whom all these things are born, by which all that are born live, unto whom they, departing, return — ask about it. That is Brahman.' If this quality of ruling the universe be a quality common even to the liberated then this text would not apply as a definition of Brahman defining Him through His rulership of the universe. The uncommon attributes alone define a thing; therefore in texts like — 'My beloved boy, alone, in the beginning there existed the One without a second. That saw and felt, "I will give birth to the many." That projected heat.' — 'Brahman indeed alone existed in the beginning. That One evolved. That projected a blessed form, the Kshatra. All these gods are Kshatras: Varuna, Soma, Rudra, Parjanya, Yama, Mrityu, Ishâna.' — 'Atman indeed existed alone in the beginning; nothing else vibrated; He thought of projecting the world; He projected the world after.' — 'Alone Nârâyana existed; neither Brahmâ, nor Ishana, nor the Dyâvâ-Prithivi, nor the stars, nor water, nor fire, nor Soma, nor the sun. He did not take pleasure alone. He after His meditation had one daughter, the ten organs, etc.' — and in others as, 'Who living in the earth is separate from the earth, who living in the Atman, etc.' — the Shrutis speak of the Supreme One as the subject of the work of ruling the universe. . . . Nor in these descriptions of the ruling of the universe is there any position for the liberated soul, by which such a soul may have the ruling of the universe ascribed to it."

 

[Leo Gura]

@Esoteric Well, obviously humans cannot have total power because that would just create a cosmic war of competing agendas.

But still it seems people can get some powers like the various siddhis, so it is just a question of degree. The question is how much power can on gain? I don't see why there would be some hard boundary. It just seems to get harder and harder to change more fundamental aspects of reality, like the gravitational constant of the whole universe. It's obvious why mystics aren't allowed to change that willy-nilly.

Also, from my experiences, at high enough levels of consciousness you become so hyper conscious that you literally stop being human and become God itself. In that state you seem to have access to many of its powers because you become it. It is no longer your human will that is at work at that point.

[Esoteric]

@Leo Gura Well, if we play with the possibility that humans could get the ability to actually materialize stuff in an instant, right before your eyes, I think they would be so incredibly developed that even having agendas would be absurd. The only reports I have seen of this is basically Jesus and Babaji. And by reports I mean other highly advanced beings that have written or passed on reports about it. Make of it whatever you want, I have no idea, I just find it really interesting. If Babaji existed/exists he could supposedly materialize "physical" structures in an instant. So yeah, it seems that you can go deeper and deeper, and the deeper you go the more power you can attain, maybe even changing "physical reality". That is why I also don't think that simply grasping the emptiness gives you a complete understanding(not even close). It seems that the energy/vibration is where the shockingly mystical stuff is and that's what you want to penetrate deeper and deeper into if you really want to get your full knowledge. It also seems to me like this can be highly seductive and if you are not well equipped you can get lost in this mystery. So I want to go in with humbleness and great respect regarding this, but I definitely want to go in. I want to get as full of an understanding as I can get.

[Nahm]

14 hours ago, Jed Vassallo said:

Leo, you seem to be trying to achieve raising your consciousness to the point where you can alter the illusion at will, be able to manifest objects, create legit miracles, and alter all of humanity at the collective consciousness level. What specifically would you do if you reach any of these levels? Do you have a plan? 

I'm guessing no human, except maybe Jesus or Buddha if they ever even existed, has gotten anywhere close to these levels of consciousness. So if you were to become one of the first, you could literally alter all of humanity. So what would you do?  Be honest  

You’re already doing all of this. Consciousness is about realizing it, not becoming anything.

[Leo Gura]

46 minutes ago, Esoteric said:

That is why I also don't think that simply grasping the emptiness gives you a complete understanding(not even close). It seems that the energy/vibration is where the shockingly mystical stuff is and that's what you want to penetrate deeper and deeper into if you really want to get your full knowledge.

That is correct. What's required is consciousness of God's Will and how this Will can be channeled or directed. It's tricky stuff.

Quote

It also seems to me like this can be highly seductive and if you are not well equipped you can get lost in this mystery. So I want to go in with humbleness and great respect regarding this, but I definitely want to go in. I want to get as full of an understanding as I can get.

Yes, it's absolutely crucial that you surrender all desire for personal power or personal gain.

My working theory is, personal desires for power will block you from access to the highest power. This is like a safety mechanism to prevent devils from screwing up reality.

[Esoteric]

48 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

That is correct. What's required is consciousness of God's Will and how this Will can be channeled or directed. It's tricky stuff.

Yes, it's absolutely crucial that you surrender all desire for personal power or personal gain.

My working theory is, personal desires for power will block you from access to the highest power. This is like a safety mechanism to prevent devils from screwing up reality.

Yes, I think so too.