Questions about reality

[Forestluv]

28 minutes ago, Phoenixx said:

How do you reconcile your reality with others reality? 

From the perspective of a separate self, it's easy. . . There is my reality and your reality.

From the perspective of Reality, there is nothing in need of reconciling.

28 minutes ago, Phoenixx said:

Past and future are both as real as the present moment.

Transcending this construct is a major realization. I think you are in striking distance. 

Imagine something that happened to you yesterday. Look around you Now. Observe what is happening around you Now. Observe the thoughts of yesterday. Realize the thoughts of yesterday are happening Now. The thoughts of yesterday are imaginations occurring Now.

Imo, this is one of the most important awakenings. If the awakening is clear/deep enough, it can bring down the whole house of cards.

[Phoenixx]

11 hours ago, Serotoninluv said:

Imagine something that happened to you yesterday. Look around you Now. Observe what is happening around you Now. Observe the thoughts of yesterday. Realize the thoughts of yesterday are happening Now. The thoughts of yesterday are imaginations occurring Now.

This is not awakening. Memories and predictions are past and future. You are not living the present because there is no present without past and future.

Even physicists say that time is a human constructed dimension. As counter-intuitive as it might seem, time does not "flow" and is just a brain perception (see the block universe theory).

Edited August 22, 2019 by Phoenixx

[Forestluv]

4 hours ago, Phoenixx said:

Memories and predictions are past and future. 

Memories and predictions happen Now.

4 hours ago, Phoenixx said:

You are not living the present because there is no present without past and future.

Exactly. past, present, future is a construct. Nothing wrong with that, it has practical value in human life.

With the realization of Now, the construct of past, present, future collapses and Everything is Now. 

[Phoenixx]

5 hours ago, Serotoninluv said:

Memories and predictions happen Now.

Exactly. past, present, future is a construct. Nothing wrong with that, it has practical value in human life.

With the realization of Now, the construct of past, present, future collapses and Everything is Now. 

Now is still time. If there would be no time, space would make no sense because there would be no consciousness. Time is finite consciousness.

Maybe reality is pure information and we're just bits of consciousness experiencing stuff. This makes me think of death as the end of the illusion (Maya).

[Forestluv]

@Phoenixx I’m not disagreeing with you or saying you are wrong. You are describing now and are unaware of Now. 

Another way of saying it is you are seeing things along a horizontal axis of a timeline - with a past, present and future. That’s all fine and dandy. I am not arguing against that.

There is also a vertical axis of Now. The vertical axis is infinite. The past and future does not exist along the vertical axis - they are only images appearing within the vertical axis.

If you keep arguing for the horizontal axis, you will not be able to see the vertical axis.

[Phoenixx]

14 minutes ago, Serotoninluv said:

@Phoenixx I’m not disagreeing with you or saying you are wrong. You are describing now and are unaware of Now. 

Another way of saying it is you are seeing things along a horizontal axis of a timeline - with a past, present and future. That’s all fine and dandy. I am not arguing against that.

There is also a vertical axis of Now. The vertical axis is infinite. The past and future does not exist along the vertical axis - they are only images appearing within the vertical axis.

If you keep arguing for the horizontal axis, you will not be able to see the vertical axis.

Guess you're talking about Now as a state of mind. But how it can be Now without time? Now is a response to when and when means time.

Have you ever experienced death of the senses? Now makes no sense when you're dead.

[Forestluv]

6 minutes ago, Phoenixx said:

how it can be Now without time? 

now requires a past and future. now is relative to a past and future. That is a realities use of now. Absolute Now has no past or future. The deepest realization is through direct experience, not through conceptualizing. When past and future is transcended, one’s relationship with Reality is transformed. 

I think one key is to let go of a “time vs. no-time” duality. Notice how you are oriented that it must be time or no-time. This isn’t about rejecting time and accepting the opposite of time. It’s about setting that construct aside and having a realization of Eternal Now. 

 

[Phoenixx]

15 minutes ago, Serotoninluv said:

now requires a past and future. now is relative to a past and future. That is a realities use of now. Absolute Now has no past or future. The deepest realization is through direct experience, not through conceptualizing. When past and future is transcended, one’s relationship with Reality is transformed. 

I think one key is to let go of a “time vs. no-time” duality. Notice how you are oriented that it must be time or no-time. This isn’t about rejecting time and accepting the opposite of time. It’s about setting that construct aside and having a realization of Eternal Now.

The deepest realization is not through experience. I guess you're talking about awareness. Nirvana means the cessation of consciousness. It is not a state of mind. Eternal Now is a concept and is strongly tied to our perception of time and space.

[Shadowraix]

10 minutes ago, Phoenixx said:

The deepest realization is not through experience. I guess you're talking about awareness. Nirvana means the cessation of consciousness. It is not a state of mind. Eternal Now is a concept and is strongly tied to our perception of time and space.

You're getting lost in semantics. 

[Forestluv]

9 minutes ago, Shadowraix said:

You're getting lost in semantics. 

Yep.

@Phoenixx There are things you can learn and experience that you are unaware of and hadn’t considered yet.

[Phoenixx]

36 minutes ago, Serotoninluv said:

Yep.

@Phoenixx There are things you can learn and experience that you are unaware of and hadn’t considered yet.

Agreed, we all have a lot to learn and experience. But I'm talking about things which are beyond human concepts. It is not about semantics.

Just try to focus more on the nature of time.

[Forestluv]

1 hour ago, Phoenixx said:

But I'm talking about things which are beyond human concepts. It is not about semantics.

Just try to focus more on the nature of time.

What you are referring to as the “nature of time” is human concepts, abstractions - past, present, future and mechanisms of time. Sean Carroll speaks in concepts, abstractions. 

[Phoenixx]

10 hours ago, Serotoninluv said:

What you are referring to as the “nature of time” is human concepts, abstractions - past, present, future and mechanisms of time. Sean Carroll speaks in concepts, abstractions. 

Sure, but science is the most accurate tool for measuring the physical world. You cannot describe what consciousness is without using words. You cannot describe describe the sentient world without some physical reference either. It's impossible to take yourself and reality out of context.

Consciousness is in relation to the physical world and time. There's no way to shut down your senses without being dead. That's why I mentioned about Nirvana because it is similar to the physical death and it is also described as being the cessation of consciousness.

What do you think happens when the physical death occurs? The brain will stop its activity and the consciousness will make no sense in a non-physical world. Consciousness is a product of the brain.

[poimandres]

4 hours ago, Phoenixx said:

Consciousness is a product of the brain.

If you define consciousness as electricity flowing in a biological nervous system, you would be correct.

However, if you believe that plants are conscious (even if primitive), your definition is not complete.

Something like this article, Slime molds challenges me to redefine what I thought consciousness was (nervous system).

Edited August 23, 2019 by poimandres

[Forestluv]

5 hours ago, Phoenixx said:

Sure, but science is the most accurate tool for measuring the physical world. You cannot describe what consciousness is without using words. You cannot describe the sentient world without some physical reference either. It's impossible to take yourself and reality out of context.

You are within a mindset of an external material objective reality. 

Consciousness is described without words and immaterially all the time. Look around you and observe. 

5 hours ago, Phoenixx said:

Consciousness is in relation to the physical world and time. There's no way to shut down your senses without being dead. 

That is consciousness from the perspective of a personal human. Consciousness is commonly referred to in that context and I have no problem using that context. However, Consciousness also has a more expansiveness that you don’t seem to be aware of.

5 hours ago, Phoenixx said:

Consciousness is a product of the brain.

Yes, from the perspective of a separate finite self.

What is a brain? How does the brain function? What are neurotransmitters? Do you realize that people around you act as neutransmitters and alter  your brain activity, similar to how neurotransmitters “inside” your brain alter your brain activity? You are seeing this from a separate individual physical consciousness and are not aware of a more expanded collective conscious. “Inside” and “Outside” of your brain is a construct. If you inspect very closely, this inside vs. outside duality will collapse. A simpler example is that the microbiome In your gut directly communicate and alter brain activity in your brain. Are the bacteria in your gut part of your brain? We can take this further and further and your concept of a separate individual brain will eventually collapse.

It’s as if you are saying Paris is in France and I’m trying to tell you that Paris and France are within Europe. And you keep responding that Paris cannot be in Europe because Paris is in France. . . 

[Phoenixx]

10 hours ago, poimandres said:

If you define consciousness as electricity flowing in a biological nervous system, you would be correct.

However, if you believe that plants are conscious (even if primitive), your definition is not complete.

Something like this article, Slime molds challenges me to redefine what I thought consciousness was (nervous system).

"the slime mold has no central brain or indeed any awareness of the overall problem it is trying to solve, but manages to produce a structure with similar properties to the real rail network."

The motion of slime mold has nothing to do with being conscious or being aware. I'm talking about beings that are conscious of their own existence, such as humans and animals. Movement is an illusion.

9 hours ago, Serotoninluv said:

What is a brain? How does the brain function? What are neurotransmitters? Do you realize that people around you act as neutransmitters and alter  your brain activity, similar to how neurotransmitters “inside” your brain alter your brain activity? You are seeing this from a separate individual physical consciousness and are not aware of a more expanded collective conscious. “Inside” and “Outside” of your brain is a construct. If you inspect very closely, this inside vs. outside duality will collapse. A simpler example is that the microbiome In your gut directly communicate and alter brain activity in your brain. Are the bacteria in your gut part of your brain? We can take this further and further and your concept of a separate individual brain will eventually collapse.

It’s as if you are saying Paris is in France and I’m trying to tell you that Paris and France are within Europe. And you keep responding that Paris cannot be in Europe because Paris is in France. . . 

I'm more aware of my limits than you think. And I don't see myself as being separate, you just keep making assumptions without even knowing me.

As for your example, why do you tell me about physiological processes if you think that consciousness is separate from the brain? Do you really think that upon physical death your consciousness will somehow magically survive?

[Forestluv]

10 minutes ago, Phoenixx said:

 I don't see myself as being separate

You do, yet haven’t realized it yet (see below)

12 minutes ago, Phoenixx said:

Do you really think that upon physical death your consciousness will somehow magically survive?

 Voila! That is a personal separate consciousness. You see yourself as separate from your surroundings and that you have a personal consciousness that will die. I’m not saying you are wrong. I’m saying there is a more transcendent consciousness you are unaware of. If you were aware of it, you would not be contracted within a personal consciousness.

[Phoenixx]

21 minutes ago, Serotoninluv said:

You do, yet haven’t realized it yet (see below)

 Voila! That is a personal separate consciousness. You see yourself as separate from your surroundings and that you have a personal consciousness that will die. I’m not saying you are wrong. I’m saying there is a more transcendent consciousness you are unaware of. If you were aware of it, you would not be contracted within a personal consciousness.

How does this transcendent consciousness look like? It is a unicorn melting with the infinite truth?

You see yourself as separate from your surroundings as well, otherwise there would be no disagreement between us and you'd be literally everything.

Cmon, real world isn't so bad.

[Forestluv]

13 hours ago, Phoenixx said:

You see yourself as separate from your surroundings as well, otherwise there would be no disagreement between us and you'd be literally everything.

I’m not disagreeing with you. You are arguing with yourself. 

It is like you keep insisting that Paris is in France and every time I say Paris is also in Europe, you pull out a map of France and say “Look! Paris is in France!”

[Scholar]

You will not find answers by creating more elaborate constructions of thoughts and ideas. You are trapped in your concepts, you replace one concept with another.

Time is this, time is that. Time is an illusion. Time is relative. Consciousness is time.

All of these statements are utterly absurd and untrue. Time is one thing and one thing only. Time is time. You will not find insight into the nature of reality by shuffling concepts around, you will only find insight by looking at that which you seek to know. The looking is the recognition and the recognition that which it is.

 

Good and Evil exist too. It is clear as day, I can be directly aware of these two fascets of realness. They are as real as anything else could be real. To see the truth you must stop confusing different aspects of realness for each other. Time is time. Good is Good. Evil is Evil. There is nothing that is evil, there is nothing that is time, there is nothing that is round, there is nothing that is fast. Only fastness is fast, only roundness is round and only time is time.

 

Time is not an illusion. Only illusion is illusion. All you have to do is look mindfully. Stop confusing your thoughts for that which is not thought.