The Freedom of Non-Doership

[Beginner Mind]

We have all lived our lives with the mistaken belief that we are in control of our actions.  But over the centuries, the great sages have told us that we are in fact not responsible for our actions. 

In the Bhagavad Gita, Krishna says: "The self, deluded by egoism, thinketh: 'I am the doer.'"

Ramana Maharshi said: "The present difficulty is that man thinks he is the doer.  But it is a mistake.  It is the higher power which does everything and man is only a tool."

Even Leo has mentioned that we are not the doers in his video, "Enlightenment Experience Explanation & Key Lessons".

There is tremendous freedom available in realizing that you are not the doer.  With this realization comes the dropping away of guilt for so-called mistakes, for you see that your "mistakes" were not your doing.  Feelings of hatred towards others dissolve as well, as you see that no one has really ever done anything harmful to you.  As Ramesh Balsekar said: "Events happen.  Nobody does anything.  All things happen exactly as they are supposed to happen, according to the will of God."

The heart is beating by itself, hair is growing by itself, even thoughts are appearing by themselves.  From head to toe, it is obvious that we are not the doers.  So, why is it that we cling to this false sense of doership?

[bensenbiz]

On this topic I like a talk from Alan Watts:

 

why are we clinging do this stuff - maybe because of our fear of death / need for survival - so thats why we think we have to control or we are in control. Since we realize more and more that there is no „we /me“ - there is just accepting the „is“ 

 

[Ones]

17 minutes ago, Beginner Mind said:

The heart is beating by itself, hair is growing by itself, even thoughts are appearing by themselves.  From head to toe, it is obvious that we are not the doers.  So, why is it that we cling to this false sense of doership?

Because of the belief that we are the body.

Edited August 19, 2019 by Ones

[Truth Addict]

1 hour ago, Beginner Mind said:

So, why is it that we cling to this false sense of doership?

Addiction.

[WelcometoReality]

@Beginner Mind It's a natural evolution of the human psyche. A healthy ego believes in it's ability to change the world around it. An unhealthy ego believes it can't and that it is a victim of circumstances.

When the ego is trancended you see that you are not the ego and that the flow of the world shapes everything. Resistance to this flow causes suffering.

[Apparition of Jack]

This ties in nicely with another concept:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wu_wei

[SoonHei]

@Beginner Mind like flying a kite high in the sky

when the kite is in the sky, it might this it is doing all the actions. moving/swaying in the wind

 

as you bring the kite back down and reel it back in. the kite sees it was a puppet and the real do-er was the kite flyer.

 

in the freedom of non-doership, there also comes the true freedom of doing whatever you like!

once you know as your true place as the kite flyer, you can fly the kite as high as you like! 

[Beginner Mind]

2 hours ago, bensenbiz said:

On this topic I like a talk from Alan Watts:

 

Legend.

2 hours ago, Ones said:

Because of the belief that we are the body.

Yes.  The belief in being the body brings with it the belief that we are in control of the body's functioning.  Perhaps cultivating the witnessing position is the remedy for this?

1 hour ago, Truth Addict said:

Addiction.

True.  The conditioning of being the doer has been drilled into us from a very early age.  Breaking free of that conditioning is not easy.

1 hour ago, WelcometoReality said:

@Beginner Mind A healthy ego believes in it's ability to change the world around it. An unhealthy ego believes it can't and that it is a victim of circumstances.

An ego that realizes its powerlessness doesn't necessarily have to fall into a victim mentality.  There can be the understanding that, "I am not the doer, but nonetheless I must act out the natural inclinations of this body-mind organism."

1 hour ago, Apparition of Jack said:

This ties in nicely with another concept:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wu_wei

Indeed.  There was an author by the name of Wei Wu Wei who wrote about non-doership quite a bit, heavily influencing the teachings of Ramesh Balsekar who came later.

1 hour ago, SoonHei said:

@Beginner Mind like flying a kite high in the sky

when the kite is in the sky, it might this it is doing all the actions. moving/swaying in the wind

 

as you bring the kite back down and reel it back in. the kite sees it was a puppet and the real do-er was the kite flyer.

 

in the freedom of non-doership, there also comes the true freedom of doing whatever you like!

once you know as your true place as the kite flyer, you can fly the kite as high as you like! 

Yes.  The question might arise, "If I am not the doer, then how do I live my life?"  The answer is, simply do whatever it is that you feel you should do.  Follow your natural inclinations.

[Ones]

22 minutes ago, Beginner Mind said:

Yes.  The belief in being the body brings with it the belief that we are in control of the body's functioning.  Perhaps cultivating the witnessing position is the remedy for this?

Yes. The energies of the separate self can be very strong even after we realise its unreality though. That is my experience at least. As many teachers say: the journey starts after we wake up. It seems like true progress only happens after awakening, and we slowly begin to identify with "awareness" instead of the body/mind. 

[Beginner Mind]

3 hours ago, Ones said:

Yes. The energies of the separate self can be very strong even after we realise its unreality though. That is my experience at least. As many teachers say: the journey starts after we wake up. It seems like true progress only happens after awakening, and we slowly begin to identify with "awareness" instead of the body/mind. 

Did non-doership dawn on you prior to waking up, or was the realization a byproduct of waking up?

[Forestluv]

@Beginner Mind I think this is one of the most important realizations. The illusion of personal choice causes an immense amount of stress and turmoil in the mind and body. The realization of no-doership can relieve a of of suffering. Yet, absence of responsibility does not mean that I am not responsible. I see a lot of people partially realize no-doer and then hold the belief “I am not responsible”. That is only a half truth.

[Beginner Mind]

21 minutes ago, Serotoninluv said:

@Beginner Mind I think this is one of the most important realizations. The illusion of personal choice causes an immense amount of stress and turmoil in the mind and body. The realization of no-doership can relieve a of of suffering. Yet, absence of responsibility does not mean that I am not responsible. I see a lot of people partially realize no-doer and then hold the belief “I am not responsible”. That is only a half truth.

Yes, there is the danger of someone using this teaching as an excuse to act unconsciously.  One might say, "I'm not the doer, therefore I can pick up a machine gun and kill a bunch of people."  But, the question is, is such action truly in your nature?  Is it really in your nature to grab a gun and murder someone?  Chances are, probably not.

A less extreme example would be someone who hears this teaching and says, "I'm not the doer, therefore I'm going to just sit on my couch and do nothing for the rest of my life."  But, again, is it really in your nature to do that?  Chances are, there are other inclinations you have.  Goals and desires that you will find yourself pursuing according to your nature. 

At the end of the day, all we have to do is follow our natural inclinations, while realizing that those inclinations are actually the will of God...  And not our doing.

[Forestluv]

2 minutes ago, Beginner Mind said:

A less extreme example would be someone who hears this teaching and says, "I'm not the doer, therefore I'm going to just sit on my couch and do nothing for the rest of my life."  

Also consider: no-doer means no “I”. If there is no-doer, there is no “me” to act as a doer.

If there is no-doer, how can I sit on my couch and do nothing? That would require a doer! There is no longer a “me”, doing or not doing anything. That gets transcended/removed. There is simply happenings without a “me” taking ownership of anything.

Fun stuff ? 

[Beginner Mind]

8 minutes ago, Serotoninluv said:

Also consider: no-doer means no “I”. If there is no-doer, there is no “me” to act as a doer.

If there is no-doer, how can I sit on my couch and do nothing? That would require a doer! There is no longer a “me”, doing or not doing anything. That gets transcended/removed. There is simply happenings without a “me” taking ownership of anything.

Fun stuff ? 

I don't doubt what you're saying, but I'm not quite there yet.  To me, there's definitely still a "me" here.  It's possible that my current focus on non-doership is more of a temporary phase, a necessary step along the staircase to the realization of no-self.  Who knows?  But for now, I'm satisfied with realizing I'm not the doer.

[Schahin]

7 hours ago, Serotoninluv said:

Also consider: no-doer means no “I”. If there is no-doer, there is no “me” to act as a doer.

If there is no-doer, how can I sit on my couch and do nothing? That would require a doer! There is no longer a “me”, doing or not doing anything. That gets transcended/removed. There is simply happenings without a “me” taking ownership of anything.

Fun stuff ? 

But is it really true though? 

Ultimately you are god, so aren't you taking decisions and doing things? 

God is nothing separate from you, so don't you as god do have control? 

Or how do these happenings all occur?

Edited August 20, 2019 by Schahin

[Forestluv]

@Schahin It depends on one’s notion of “you”. Who/what are “you”?

[Schahin]

Yes the you would be god, Krishna, infinite Consciousness. 

But can you while in human Form be conscious of how you as god take decisions? It might be you taking the decisions as you are god but can you be always conscious of how it works? 

How does God are you even take decisions moment to moment according to what factors? 

[Koyaanisqatsi]

Everything is just happening. There are no doers. First this is seen with the mind, then in daily life. Then the idea of a 'me' or 'others' no longer makes sense.

[Truth Addict]

6 hours ago, Schahin said:

Yes the you would be god, Krishna, infinite Consciousness. 

But can you while in human Form be conscious of how you as god take decisions? It might be you taking the decisions as you are god but can you be always conscious of how it works? 

How does God are you even take decisions moment to moment according to what factors? 

God is not someone or something. It isn't a part. It is the whole.

To say that God does things according to factors is placing the cart before the horse. Factors are second order to being so to speak. Being is not subject to factors.

[Billy Shears]

We must believe in free will, we have no choice.