No advanced growth possible without psychedelics

[Meditationdude]

After listening to Leo’s content for years I’m starting to realize that significant growth isn’t going to be possible (at least at the rate Leo and some of these advanced forum people) without doing hardcore psychedelics like DMT and LSD.  

For those of us who want to awaken without these aids (like myself) I feel like it’s not possible and/or we are being left behind. 

It just seems like most of Leo’s content comes from tripping and unless we join him we are fucked and will be left behind eventually. 

Anyone else feel this way? Like I hear all this amazing content but most of it will never be actualized for us bc we don’t take these substances. Is it even possible to see the Truth without them? 

Is there even such a thing as a dharma teacher who doesn’t do these drugs?

I realize this is my ego but guess what, I’m not awake so this is how I communicate, this is my reality. Don’t give me some answer like “all is love bro” and “it’s all an illusion”. So unhelpful. 

[SoonHei]

8 minutes ago, Meditationdude said:

we are being left behind. 

there is no "left behind" in eternity

 

there are also NO ABSOLUTE STATEMENTS which are true 

No advanced growth possible without psychedelics

that's an absolute statement

 

oh, and be cautious. YOU can turn any statement into an absolute statement, but ONLY for Yourself.

[DaneV]

I think the assumption that you need drugs like LSD or DMT to "grow" is absolutely false. I did a number of psychedelic trips with DMT and Psilocybin and while they were a major step "forward" to obtaining insights, these experiences do have their limits and in also have the potential to be an obstacle when they are taken too seriously. Especially when people start thinking they can drug themselves into enlightenment.

I like the way Sam Harris describes his  experience in the following video:

https://bigthink.com/think-tank/sam-harris-discusses-mdma-and-psychedelics

[Meditationdude]

@SoonHei you see everything you said here went straight over my head. 

[Ones]

36 minutes ago, Meditationdude said:

After listening to Leo’s content for years I’m starting to realize that significant growth isn’t going to be possible (at least at the rate Leo and some of these advanced forum people) without doing hardcore psychedelics like DMT and LSD.  

For those of us who want to awaken without these aids (like myself) I feel like it’s not possible and/or we are being left behind. 

It just seems like most of Leo’s content comes from tripping and unless we join him we are fucked and will be left behind eventually. 

Anyone else feel this way? Like I hear all this amazing content but most of it will never be actualized for us bc we don’t take these substances. Is it even possible to see the Truth without them? 

Is there even such a thing as a dharma teacher who doesn’t do these drugs?

I realize this is my ego but guess what, I’m not awake so this is how I communicate, this is my reality. Don’t give me some answer like “all is love bro” and “it’s all an illusion”. So unhelpful. 

Psychedelics can help destroy some of the deep believes about reality that lies very deeply within you. There is no path to the truth, either it show up or it doesn't. Its always here for anyONE to see. Leo doesn't know more than you, if he think he does it is just his ego and if you think he does it is also ego. Truth doesn't belong to anyBODY, you are truth. 

[Meditationdude]

@DaneV I meant “significant” growth like the oneness and infinity that everyone of this forum loves to talk about and Leo has been teaching lately. 

I’ve been doing the work for years and I’ve never experienced those things for myself. It seems to me like everyone who has was tripping balls. So if I’m not going to do dmt or lsd, will I ever experience absolutely infinity or oneness organically? Or do I have to sit and meditate for 16 hours a day? 

I’d like for people to just be honest with themselves and say that these awakenings only happened because of drugs and that they can’t emulate them again without them. Leo should make this clear bc people will assume it’s possible without them just doing meditation, self inquiry and contemplation. 

[Enlightenment]

2 minutes ago, Meditationdude said:

Leo should make this clear bc people will assume it’s possible without them just doing meditation, self inquiry and contemplation. 

Yea, I feel like Leo talk as though you can discover these Truths by self-inquiry, meditation, etc. because he doesn't want to admit that the only way is to take drugs

[Meditationdude]

@Ones “destroy deep beliefs” yes they can do that, but so can good insightful meditation. I meant the deeper levels of awakening. When Leo and people talk about Truth, oneness and infinity and pure consciousness, I don’t see how it’s possible to experience this without psychedelics. 

So again my question remains, is it possible without drugs to do in western life without becoming a monk?

[Meditationdude]

@Ero was it not true for you or are you just saying that? 

[Enlightenment]

@Meditationdude What Leo talks about (mainly) are temporary states you can enter through psychedelics. If you want persistent changes in your daily experience psychedelics are very ineffective.

[Ones]

2 minutes ago, Meditationdude said:

@Ones “destroy deep beliefs” yes they can do that, but so can good insightful meditation. I meant the deeper levels of awakening. When Leo and people talk about Truth, oneness and infinity and pure consciousness, I don’t see how it’s possible to experience this without psychedelics. 

So again my question remains, is it possible without drugs to do in western life without becoming a monk?

Do you want truth or an experience. Your present experience, your day to day experience is truth. Your present experience is oneness, you reading this is oneness, if everything is oneness how could it not include this? The mind looks to the future for an event that will end its seeking, a big event called enlightenment. Stop believing the thought that you are far from the truth. You are truth I am you.

[SoonHei]

47 minutes ago, SoonHei said:

there is no "left behind" in eternity

 

there are also NO ABSOLUTE STATEMENTS which are true 

No advanced growth possible without psychedelics

that's an absolute statement

 

oh, and be cautious. YOU can turn any statement into an absolute statement, but ONLY for Yourself.

@Meditationdude

you do not need to worry about being left behind. be at peace knowing that you are exactly where you need to be. ergo - no left behind or having to worry about being left behind in a comparative sense 

 

no absolute statements means that there is no LAW or only only ONE way something is to be done.

you can have growth is many other ways. there is no ONE SIZE FITS ALL.

and what I meant was, you can choose to and start believing in something which in turn becomes a tangible reality for you. 

 

for example, there are people who believe that if they step on a crack while walking on the sidewalk, their mother will injure/break her back.

this is NOT an absolute LAW of the universe... but for someone who deeply believes in it, it can become a reality... or lead them to lose their peace if they accidentally step on a crack while walking...

 

so if you believe that ONLY via psychedelics  is there any growth possible, then that's what will be the case for you, because YOU believe in it!

YOU can turn any statement into an absolute statement, but ONLY for Yourself.

the only LAW there is, is that YOU have the power to make your reality.

[Meditationdude]

@Enlightenment then why does Leo do them so often? 

why does Leo need to take DMT 13 days in a row (he said that he did this on a solo retreat) to see realize Truth? Is that really what’s necessary to reach the levels of consciousness we are all after? Bc if so, I’m out. 

[Meditationdude]

@SoonHei I don’t believe that only psychedelics can produce growth. I’ve had tons of growth and life is starting to get really awesome for me.

I’m specifically wondering about high levels of awakening. Like I saw God shit and the universe is consciousness. My “belief” is that only is possible with psychedelics or NDE’s or something almost those lines. 

[Enlightenment]

1 minute ago, Meditationdude said:

@Enlightenment then why does Leo do them so often? 

why does Leo need to take DMT 13 days in a row (he said that he did this on a solo retreat) to see realize Truth? Is that really what’s necessary to reach the levels of consciousness we are all after? Bc if so, I’m out. 

To have the same experiences as Leo, it's necessary. To awaken to a persistent state of no doership you don't have to take anything

[Meditationdude]

@Mikael89 I said “advanced” growth. Turquoise/non dual levels of you will.  

[Truth Addict]

You are awake. You merely think you aren't. You think that you should do something to awaken, but that belief is the only thing that is keeping you from awakening.

All the mystical stuff is unnecessary. You can experience the highest levels of bliss without touching a substance, if that's what you want.

[Meditationdude]

@Truth Addict that is what I want. 

So do I find another teacher who teaches from a sober perspective? 

Do you have any suggestions? 

[Enlightenment]

1 minute ago, Mikael89 said:

Your signature is wrong. Consciousness can't cease.

If Solipsism is true, you're right. If other people have experiences of being them, consciousness can cease/you can be unconscious.

[Truth Addict]

1 minute ago, Meditationdude said:

@Truth Addict that is what I want. 

So do I find another teacher who teaches from a sober perspective? 

Do you have any suggestions? 

Jed McKenna.