No advanced growth possible without psychedelics

[Forestluv]

@Meditationdude Do you desire to awaken to Reality or to explore amazing things within Reality?

[SoonHei]

@Meditationdude if you feel ready, taste the sugar brother  

[Surfingthewave]

@Meditationdude Shinzen Young, Rupert Spira to name a few. Don't just follow one. 

Keep up the meditation, this could be you, staring at the pit of the void, part of the path. As we go deeper, we question our path, our beliefs, our teachings, ourselves. I went through this too, recently actually.

Realise these thoughts for what they are and keep going. 

Edited August 19, 2019 by Surfingthewave

[SoonHei]

10 minutes ago, Truth Addict said:

You are awake. You merely think you aren't. You think that you should do something to awaken, but that belief is the only thing that is keeping you from awakening.

@Truth Addict

 

stop looking for the glasses around your house, they are on your face!

stop overlooking them!

Edited August 19, 2019 by SoonHei

[peanutspathtotruth]

I feel like Leo does honor the fact that his path is unique and that there is no "right" way. In his blog video about infinite love he said "don't worry about the how, it's not about the how". Although he does underline the immense power of psychedelics, and I can confirm that, beware not to turn this into a projection and think that that's the only way. Forget all these thoughts, pick your practices and just explore for yourself. That really is the single most important piece of advice. Instead of overthinking, just be silent, contemplate, meditate, do a retreat, whatever feels authentic to you. 

[Cocolove]

tldr

I find from my experience that retreats and trips have the same effect on long term growth, both result in a backlash that can be fought through to gain growth, it is just that trips hit a higher peak. If you are concerned with those peaks, you are correct you will not get to the same levels. If you are concerned with permanent enlightenment or higher consciousness, retreats and sober techniques will do you just as well. 

 

[TrynaBeTurquoise]

I feel like what he is trying to say is that is the best supplement for awakening work. But again not the only way. 

Just doing the psychedelics by themselves without being aware of any of this actualization/consciousness work would just be what tons of unconscious people do. So many people take psychedelics entering the deepest states of consciousness and are dumbfounded but are no closer to truth because they are still materialists chalking everything up to brain chemistry and neurons alone, or having no idea what they saw, or making ideologies out of what happens, like, "DMT is just a shortcut to the afterlife, you are seeing something you shouldn't have access too before death", things like that..

Becoming conscious about how to use them and then smartly supplementing them in is the way to go. While there are other ways to alter your consciousness to those levels like yoga, meditation, they are not like a psychedelic which is like an authority figure thats gonna pick you up, throw you in the rollercoaster seat, strap you down extremely tight and pin your eyelids open so that you are sure to pay attention. 

[Arhattobe]

Absolute nonesense. Most advanced people that have genuinely progressed on the path do not attribute their progress to psychedelics.

In fact some of the most famous practitioners through out history warn people against taking mind altering substances. Buddhism is one example.

[Forestluv]

1 minute ago, Arhattobe said:

Absolute nonesense. Most advanced people that have genuinely progressed on the path do not attribute their progress to psychedelics.

In fact some of the most famous practitioners through out history warn people against taking mind altering substances. Buddhism is one example.

There is further advancement than that.

[Arhattobe]

@Serotoninluv Than what? 

[Forestluv]

7 minutes ago, Arhattobe said:

@Serotoninluv Than what? 

What you wrote is within something “more advanced”. You would need to realize it yourself. Being immersed within a narrative hinders that realization. Any narrative.

[Arhattobe]

@Serotoninluv was just asking you to be clear with your point instead of vague and unclear.

I assume you are trying to be non dual. That’s fine, but irrelevant to my point.

Edited August 19, 2019 by Arhattobe

[DaneV]

2 hours ago, Meditationdude said:

@DaneV I meant “significant” growth like the oneness and infinity that everyone of this forum loves to talk about and Leo has been teaching lately. 

I’ve been doing the work for years and I’ve never experienced those things for myself. It seems to me like everyone who has was tripping balls. So if I’m not going to do dmt or lsd, will I ever experience absolutely infinity or oneness organically? Or do I have to sit and meditate for 16 hours a day? 

I’d like for people to just be honest with themselves and say that these awakenings only happened because of drugs and that they can’t emulate them again without them. Leo should make this clear bc people will assume it’s possible without them just doing meditation, self inquiry and contemplation. 

Actually I experienced my first "Kensho" a couple of years ago while meditating just over 20 minutes on an empty beach while on vacation. By that time I hardly knew anything about spirituality and I was just meditating for "wellness" reasons. Most great teachers in non-duality never did any drugs, yet some of them seem to be in this state where they do experience this oneness (permanently?).

Why did I get it back then? I don`t know. Maybe because I wasn`t expecting anything, maybe it was some kind of "grace", maybe it was my cubconcious pointing me towards the spiritual path ? 

And again, no matter how beautiful, blissful and sometimes insightful these experiences can be, they are just an experience. They have a beginning and an ending; so they are not the real truth (allthough you might argue that they are closer to the real truth then our regular ego-captured mind). The real truth always goes beyond experiences of your body/mind and can never be captured in a moment. And that is something  you can only really find out by "cracking" the ego trough meditation, self inquiry and contemplation afaik.

Just out of curiousity; why did you decide not to ever take a psychedelic drug?

Edited August 19, 2019 by DaneV

[Inliytened1]

@Meditationdude I never touched pyschedelics so i can tell you it's certainly possible and didn't take long at all for me once i discovered spirituality.   

Edited August 19, 2019 by Inliytened1

[Haloman]

Absolutely right. Last month i went to Vipassana retreat and even if i worked very hard and i became more conscious and got a few glimpses towards the end, it isn't comparable to the state when i took MDMA or mushrooms. Like 5% to 95%. 

Leo also has said that in his blog retreat videos that after 10 days meditating he got some minor glimpses and it's nothing compared to psychedelics.

Towards the end to my retreat i thought that this is funny that people have time to sit in this forum, go to 9-5 job and they think they'll become awake doing meditation or self-enquiry. It's a joke.

[Forestluv]

20 minutes ago, Arhattobe said:

@Serotoninluv I assume you are trying to be non dual. That’s fine, but irrelevant to my point.

Not quite. But that’s fine ? 

[Arhattobe]

@Haloman Your logic is flawed. I can dehydrate my body and do a fad diet and seemingly lose a lot of weight in a day or two (which I might promptly regain) while I destabilise my system and health or I can spend a lot of effort and lose much less weight but in a stable and healthy manner without repercussions.

You are judging both by the intensity of experience they give you due to desperation instead of having a sober perspective.

[Meditationdude]

@Serotoninluv I honestly don’t know. 

[TrynaBeTurquoise]

36 minutes ago, Arhattobe said:

@Haloman Your logic is flawed. I can dehydrate my body and do a fad diet and seemingly lose a lot of weight in a day or two (which I might promptly regain) while I destabilise my system and health or I can spend a lot of effort and lose much less weight but in a stable and healthy manner without repercussions.

You are judging both by the intensity of experience they give you due to desperation instead of having a sober perspective.

This logic is flawed, you cant equate dehydrating yourself and losing water weight to a a new level of consciousness being accessed. You are comparing the function of the physical body to how awareness works.

 

edit: also see if your sober/non sober duality breaks down on psychedelics because if you take them you can feel more sober than  in your “sober perspective”. Of course you would need to experience this before you can judge them.

Edited August 19, 2019 by TrynaBeTurquoise

[Meditationdude]

@DaneV I’ve done mushrooms before and had an awakening but after I had a big ego backlash and started doing drugs again (I’m an addict and I was sober, but relapsed a couple days after my trip). Took over a year to get sober again. 

Thats why I don’t want to try anything stronger like dmt or lsd.