Levels of self involvement, defilements & the measure of spiritual progress

[Aakash]

@Arhattobe do you ever realise that after a few mystical experience, how crazy it is to have said that reality was material. 

Thats the thing with irony; 

My words are only a pointer to more words. 

[Arhattobe]

@Ero Since it’s not really related to either his or my thread it might be best to create a new one and give some context and add a header so the reader knows what the post is about before engaging : ) 

Edited August 18, 2019 by Arhattobe

[Leo Gura]

@Ero As I explain in my video: Why People Seem Crazy -- the assumption that human beings live in the same reality or have access to the same things is a flawed one. People can have very different "brain chemistries" -- for lack of a better word, which is why people disagree so much about spiritual matters. It's not so simple as people merely being wrong or deluded. People are experiencing different territories and processing those territories in very different ways.

Because there is no such thing as "the human brain". Each human brain/mind is unique. There can be a lot of overlap, but also a lot of divergence.

Spirituality is way more complex than people make it out to be. It's easy to overlook this complexity when one sticks to a single orthodox school or teaching. But when you explore all schools, all teachings, all the edge cases, you start to see that it's not simple at all and there is no one path or single dimension to spirituality.

Rather than thinking of spirituality as a single axis, think of it as a 3 dimensional volume. And even that might be oversimplifying it.

[Nahm]

 

@Inliytened1 If nonduality is not a state and intellect is defilement, then relative is a “write off” of the intellect veiling nonduality, and there is no paradox. No? 

 

[Leo Gura]

@Ero Yes, I was not really disagreeing with you. Just adding to it.

[Arhattobe]

@Ero I just briefly skimmed through it because it was rather long. My bad : )

[mandyjw]

12 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

 

Spirituality is way more complex than people make it out to be. It's easy to overlook this complexity when one sticks to a single orthodox school or teaching. But when you explore all schools, all teachings, all the edge cases, you start to see that it's not simple at all and there is no one path or single dimension to spirituality.

 

Rather than thinking of spirituality as a single axis, think of it as a 3 dimensional volume. And even that might be oversimplifying it.

It makes sense that like the entire universe was scattered when the big bang happened, that the same would happen with ourselves. Therefore we all have to travel in different directions to meet. If we both wanted to meet at the statue of Liberty, coming from opposite ends of the country, the directions we would need to follow would look very different, that is until a certain point in which they might converge at the end. 

Edited August 18, 2019 by mandyjw

[zeroISinfinity]

@Nahm

22 minutes ago, Nahm said:

 

@Inliytened1 If nonduality is not a state and intellect is defilement, then relative is a “write off” of the intellect veiling nonduality, and there is no paradox. No? 

 

Omg could it be That egoic mind is veiling Actual /Love /Truth. 

Could it be That THIS was ME this whole time. 

Love you! ❤️ 

Love potions for all. ??‍♂️

[Nahm]

@mandyjw .....return to the Statue of Liberty....rather than meet there. 

@zeroISinfinity No, it can’t. Love ya! ♥️

[mandyjw]

@Nahm

[Inliytened1]

2 hours ago, Nahm said:

 

@Inliytened1 If nonduality is not a state and intellect is defilement, then relative is a “write off” of the intellect veiling nonduality, and there is no paradox. No? 

 

Agreed.  In fact it is both.  And i am not disagreeing with @Arhattobe either.  Bless his heart but he became very defensive right away and also  made assumptions about my own "defilements" whatever they may be and level of enlightenment.   This could be perceived as an impurity or defilement of his own that perhaps he needs to work on 

@Ero great post...a lot of good points there.

Look, Truth is a very tricky thing as Leo often states.  It is not black and white at all.  But as @Ero and @Arhattobe both point out the higher ones consciousness levels become the more at peace a person is going to be with themselves.  One big reason for this is by this level they are conscious that that they are all of reality, or God - and that in a sense they are already perfect from God's perspective.  That Reality is One and it is Love.  That in fact they are the Buddah and Jesus.

And with these higher consciousness levels whatever relative impurifications a person has will ultimately clear up - for them.   With more awakenings and the deepening of One's enlightenment, suffering is reduced.  If one can reach a point of no suffering then at that point any finite egoic desires - for control, permanent pleasure, etc will ultimately dissipate and the individual would be at the level of Jesus.  Just a carefree selfless loving being that is not a slave to his own ego.

 

 

 

Edited August 18, 2019 by Inliytened1

[Nahm]

@Inliytened1   Is a fish a high enough level of consciousness to be considered in enlightened? 

[Arhattobe]

@Inliytened1 Sorry. I notice I came from a place that was less than ideal in my response in the way I formulated my points.

The lack of acknowledgement of our humanity and the relative within non dual dogma and things resembling non dual dogma does make me a bit reactive. My bad : ) 

Noticing this tendency of mine has been fruitful, however, thanks for that lol

Edited August 18, 2019 by Arhattobe

[Inliytened1]

10 minutes ago, Nahm said:

@Inliytened1   Is a fish a high enough level of consciousness to be considered in enlightened? 

Lol..i think i set the bar pretty high with Jesus.  A fish has a long way to go.