Leo, Israel is a very complex and nuanced culture

[Nivsch]

2 hours ago, Mezanti said:

@Nivsch hes talking about separating you "nivsch" from the israeli identity imagine if you weren't israeli, view it from a birds eye view, try imagining you are the palestinian... how would it feel like, wouldn't you have the same self bias to palestine that you now have towards israel? the answer is yes my friend

 

I understood what Leo meant I just said i agree with 2 states solution ? But I admit that I want it because israel interests only. From bird eye yes i understand its not easy maybe i am missing things but, the best way *to the palestinians too* is to incorporate in the process an "economic peace" which will encourage economical development of west bank and help them to be more orange because this is a stage they can grasp and move into! Thats the best mayble only hope to make change in the relationships between israel and palestinians.

Edited August 16, 2019 by Nivsch

[Leo Gura]

8 hours ago, Paul92 said:

@Leo Gura You believe it's an Absolute. Can it be proven beyond all doubt?

No because what you don't understand is that Truth is prior to proof.

6 hours ago, How to be wise said:

The more conscious you become, the less you worry about “results” because it really doesn’t matter that much. The solution to devilry is to just wait until that devilry is conquered by truth. The reason why devils are ruling today is because they should. This devilry you see today will be a necessary foundation for the higher consciousness of the future. Don’t be impatient about raising consciousness. Everything will happen in the perfect time.

What this misses is that actions must happen regardless. Just sitting back and saying "Well, Hitler will resolve itself. I will do nothing because it doesn't bother me." is a dysfunctional way of embodying spirituality.

You are not just a passive observer of life, you are right at the heart of its unfoldment. The choice to do nothing is still a choice. Sitting back and letting others fight Hitler for you is rather lazy and irresponsible. Because once Hitler gets to your front yard, you will wish you'd done something.

[How to be wise]

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

 

What this misses is that actions must happen regardless. Just sitting back and saying "Well, Hitler will resolve itself. I will do nothing because it doesn't bother me." is a dysfunctional way of embodying spirituality.

You are not just a passive observer of life, you are right at the heart of its unfoldment. The choice to do nothing is still a choice. Sitting back and letting others fight Hitler for you is rather lazy and irresponsible. Because once Hitler gets to your front yard, you will wish you'd done something.

But the Hitler issue was resolved. Yes it was painful, but without it would society be as conscious as it is today? 

And of course, we shouldn’t sit back and do nothing. But we also shouldn’t be too neurotic about results. If it can’t be done peacefully, then it shouldn’t be done. Helping people is what should be the aim, not fighting devilry. You do your best, and let Trump do what he does. Whatever Trump does is what should happen.

[Leo Gura]

1 hour ago, How to be wise said:

If it can’t be done peacefully, then it shouldn’t be done.

Unfortunately life ain't so simple.

By that logic Hitler could not be stopped.

Violence is actually not the opposite of love or awakening.

Violence happens precisely because it is part of the Ultimate Good. Some things cannot be resolved other than through violence. That's the paradox.

The Hitler issue was resolved by fighting the devil head-on, not by Spiral Dynamicing him. My point is that no amount Spiral Dynamics or Integral Theory would have resolved that issue, and that it might have made it worse. No everyone can be negotiated with. Negotiation has certain prerequisites.

[Forestluv]

12 hours ago, Paul92 said:

You believe it's an Absolute. Can it be proven beyond all doubt?

A simple example of how Absolute Truth is prior to proof.

Imagine a murder took place. The Truth of that murder is prior to all evidence and proof of the murder. 

[fatemeh-ss]

On 16/08/2019 at 10:28 PM, Nivsch said:

I agree we need to seperate oursleves from the palestinians because the friction is exhausting and also corrapts us. 

Yes you need to separate yourselves from Palestinians and LEAVE their country. How can you possibly ever claim that you're saving Palestinians from Hamas? You have been exterminating them and greenwashing their lands building places like "Canada Park" on where used to be Palestinian villages. You arrest Palestinian kids on the streets. How can Hamas be worse than this? Hamas IS the reason Palestine still exists. If it wasn't because of Hamas you had stolen that tiny remaining strip of land long ago. 

 

[Shin]

3 hours ago, fatemeh-ss said:

Yes you need to separate yourselves from Palestinians and LEAVE their country. How can you possibly ever claim that you're saving Palestinians from Hamas? You have been exterminating them and greenwashing their lands building places like "Canada Park" on where used to be Palestinian villages. You arrest Palestinian kids on the streets. How can Hamas be worse than this? Hamas IS the reason Palestine still exists. If it wasn't because of Hamas you had stolen that tiny remaining strip of land long ago. 

 

You mean finishing the genocide.

Also let's not forget that Israel is only Israel cause greedy dudes from developed countries wanted to have Jew in their pocket

We are indirectly responsible for this shit

Edited June 11, 2021 by Shin

[Shaul]

8 hours ago, fatemeh-ss said:

Yes you need to separate yourselves from Palestinians and LEAVE their country. How can you possibly ever claim that you're saving Palestinians from Hamas? You have been exterminating them and greenwashing their lands building places like "Canada Park" on where used to be Palestinian villages. You arrest Palestinian kids on the streets. How can Hamas be worse than this? Hamas IS the reason Palestine still exists. If it wasn't because of Hamas you had stolen that tiny remaining strip of land long ago. 

 

Hey @fatemeh-ss . I would really like to have the opportunity to explain to you the complexity of the current situation in Israel, but based on the words you used in the post I am afraid your mind is so fixed that you would dismiss it.  Perhaps you would agree to listen to the words of no other than the son of the founder of Hamas, Mosab Hassan Yousef. 
Please give it a chance. I hope at least it will make you consider that maybe things are not as simple as you thought.

 

Regardless of this specific topic, I invite you and actually everyone to pay attention to what he is saying in the interview (The second video I linked).  He is a living example on how far a person can go to pursue the values he believes in. He went against anyone and everything he knew including his ideas, society and closest family. Essentially killing his old self.  He is a true inspiration for self actualizing people!

Edited June 11, 2021 by Shaul

[DocWatts]

America is also a very complex and nuanced society, if only for the immense amount of regional diversity spread out over an enormous geographic area. Yet that doesn't diminish the Harm that America has inflicted on other parts of the world, or make its clearly unethical foreign policy decisions any more ambiguous (even if there is a diffusion of responsibility among decision makers and US citizens).

Likewise, any honest attempts to resolve the Israeli Palestinian conflict has to begin with the recognition that a clear injustice lies as the heart of the conflict, and continues to take place to this very day. 

That doesn't mean trying to turn back the clock or anything as simplistic as implying that Israeli doesn't have the right to exist, but it does mean treating the Palestinians as full partners in coming to an arrangement that both sides can live with, rather than as a hostages or subjects (which is closer to how the situation looks to the rest of the world).

Edited June 11, 2021 by DocWatts