Does being god mean taking 100% responsibility?

[Ibn Sina]

32 minutes ago, Aeris said:

Can someone Beat you on this ?

 This argument comes not from me but from the legendary philosopher Spinoza

[SoonHei]

@Aeris yes. ergo the statement, that judge no-one!

love all. because all are just water-droplets rolling down a hill. no real control. only an apparent control... until there is control but even that's not really really control

 

i like to think of it this way. the thief or the killer had no choice in their actions to commit the crime they did... but the judge will still put them in jail because even they are bound by not having a choice

 

and a killer cannot plead I HAVE NO ACTIONS OVER MY CONTROL in a court of law.

it is true, he ultimately doesn't. but that's just the role he was born to play... and the punishment to serve. 

 

Love All

Judge None

You are All

All is One

You are the ONE

ALL-ONE-ALONE

[Forestluv]

12 hours ago, Schahin said:

Wow, what you say sounds unreal, doesnt this imply a plan or a determined unfolding? 

I don’t see it as a plan - that is too anthropomorphic to me. I don’t see it as determined unfolding ether - that has too much of a cause and effect timeline in it.

From one perspective, it’s amazingly simple:  there is simply One Now of happenings. From another perspective, it’s incredibly complex and includes imagination and reality, time, intentions, desires, cause and effect, material and immaterial etc. An integrated, comprehensive understanding here goes deep and broad. 

2 hours ago, Ibn Sina said:

I think responsibility is an illusion. There are just too many variables that influences what we do. I believe in Spinoza's determinism. We do what we do because of x number of reasons of which we may have no idea and we may think it may look like we may be doing it but in reality we have no control, we are just a series of impulses. To prove this all we have to do is follow the reasons behind our action, and we will see that there is an outside cause.

Notice how you say responsibility is an illusion because there are too many variables that influence what we do. Yet then say we can follow the reasons behind our action to see there is an outside cause. That would be assigning responsibility (to an outside cause). I’m not saying either is right or wrong, just that they are not the same perspective. If there are too many variables that influence what we do, we cannot find an outside cause. What factors caused that “outside cause”? What factors caused the causation of that outside cause? Eventually, it leads to infinity in which everything is One interconnected whole. I think this is one of the most direct ways to have a nondual realization.

[Ibn Sina]

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Edited August 16, 2019 by Ibn Sina

[Forestluv]

@Ibn Sina I’m not disagreeing with you. I am trying to provide clarity.

You give a great example with the ice cream cone. Someone eats an ice cream cone and thinks “I decided to eat this ice cream cone. I caused this”. This would be referred to as a “proximal cause”. Yet as you state, we can expand outward toward an ultimate cause. What caused you to desire ice cream? Perhaps the hot weather? What caused the hot weather? What caused the neurons in your brain to fire in such a way for you to desire ice cream? What impact did your diet have on this? What influenced your self image such that you are not on a strict diet to lose weight and can’t eat ice cream? What events led to the ice cream vendor to live in this town and open an ice cream shop?

These are all valid inputs, yet it gets deeper.

You state “An infinite chain of cause and effects that has bounced us like a ping pong ball to and fro has finally brought us here.”

Notice how you use the term “infinite”. If it is infinite, then we cannot trace the cause. If Ultimate cause is infinite, then it is untraceable. As well, notice how you say “an infinite chain”. This suggests a linear chain of cause and effects. Yet this goes beyond an infinite linear chain. It is beyond linear. For every causal point in that linear chain, you can branch off and find inputs from another line that influenced that cause. It is infinite in multiple dimensions. Infinity is not simply infinite along one linear chain of events in a timeline. Infinity has infinite dimensions. At this point, we are at total inter-connected One. This is a nondual realization.

However, this is not to say causes in-between proximal cause and ultimate cause and not useful. It is very useful to have a functioning society.

[Schahin]

I think the absolute just makes normal logic understanding of life so extremely complex to understand if all you know is the relative.

Like it seems there cant be straight explanations anymore. reports of people who experienced the absolute I hear differing accounts on this free will issue.

Before it was so easy, you have free will and decide and have responsibility, it gives you freedom of your life but you can also heavily lament decisions taken in the past, and experience even non-acceptance of your life and the responsibility you have with it.

Then you have mystical experiences, and suddenly you only have questions but at the same time you get healed being reassured in your life.

Then you meet the absolute, and people that have not experienced it cannot truely understand you anymore. They say things like, free will and no free will are dual concepts that do not exist and collapse in the absolute, you are god and you determine the future and at the same time you are nothingsness and what you thought you are is an illusion and therefore you do not exist and there is nothing to determine and nothing to do as there is no-doer and no-chooser(?).

Confusing, confusing. At the End if there is only awareness being aware of itself and there is nobody to decide or take responsibility, how does life unfold then, who takes the decisions every moment for the whole universe? If it is God and therefore you, how can the average person not being aware of being the whole universe partake in that decision taking consciously? Can he freely as god take decisions, or is he not even in control as he is the dream not being aware of that he is the dreamer too. 

Is awakening the key to obtaining free will and real responsibility? 

There must be an answer^^ It cannot be a paradox. If I have the choice between coffee and tea, and decide for the tea, could I have decided in any way other than the tea? I say to myself yes I am god I easily could have decided for the coffe, but wasnt it through my subconscious and the decision was made with utmost certainty whereas I as a human did have uncertainty in choosing between coffee and tea, but my subconscious was absolutely certain. 

If there is only now and every decision is made now, it needs to be made instantly with total certainty, god wont have a nanosecond to be uncertain and indecisive. therefore god taking all the decisions all the time with all the certainty through our subconscious would say we humans dont have a responsibility, and just let the dream happen (but maybe I follow too much the relative perspective and the absolute cannot be described this way) and following the chain of decision taking with certainty should even lead to some predictable point in the future.

Edited August 16, 2019 by Schahin

[Ibn Sina]

2 hours ago, Serotoninluv said:

If Ultimate cause is infinite, then it is untraceable. As well, notice how you say “an infinite chain”. This suggests a linear chain of cause and effects. Yet this goes beyond an infinite linear chain. It is beyond linear. For every causal point in that linear chain, you can branch off and find inputs from another line that influenced that cause. It is infinite in multiple dimensions. Infinity is not simply infinite along one linear chain of events in a timeline. Infinity has infinite dimensions. At this point, we are at total inter-connected One. This is a nondual realization.

Ok I get your point. Yes, that's a great way to think about it, . It is an add on, you are going 1 step further,  I will have to contemplate deeper about it. 
You definitely are also a logical type, so it's all good,

Edited August 16, 2019 by Ibn Sina

[Beginner Mind]

7 hours ago, Ibn Sina said:

I think responsibility is an illusion. There are just too many variables that influences what we do. I believe in Spinoza's determinism. We do what we do because of x number of reasons of which we may have no idea and we may think it may look like we may be doing it but in reality we have no control, we are just a series of impulses. To prove this all we have to do is follow the reasons behind our action, and we will see that there is an outside cause.

The mentally ill person acts in a way that is off the normal standard human behavior, whereas normal people act  in the normal way, but both are acting spontaneously.

Responsibility implies there is someone who is a doer, there is a decision maker, but isn't the decision maker influenced from outside? The decision maker himself is influenced by many many factors which influences  his decision.  Micho Kaku in a bigthink vid said that Einstein said- Criminals are fated to commit crime, they are not responsible because from birth and their environment their fate has been sealed, but still they should be put in jail.

 

Agreed.  I like the way Ramesh Balsekar expressed it: Everyone acts according to their genes and conditioning (neither of which we have any control over).

Edited August 16, 2019 by Beginner Mind