Basic income

[Revolutionary Think]

Then why aren't people helping them right now? 

[Bodigger]

People are helping, just not near as much as years ago.  I think it's a multitude of reasons.  One being, people have less time because they have to work more for less money due to governments taking there 40%.  I think people spend more money on vacations and material things.  People are more selfish and I think government plays a role in this, because they think helping people is the role of government.  @Revolutionary Think Do you fall into the category of, "It's the governments role"?

 

[Revolutionary Think]

The government is incompetent because people who hate the government are in the government. They say that the government sucks and is ineffective and they are the people in the government that make it suck and make it ineffective. So that's why the government works on behalf of corporations and super rich instead of on behalf of the people. It's a vicious sick cycle that I think UBI will end. 

[Bodigger]

@Revolutionary Think Feeding the beast will only make it settle in even more.  We need to become more collectively conscious, and although helping people is great, helping ourselves is where it starts.  If it starts with force, it will end with tyranny.  If it starts with Love, it will end with knowing God.

[Revolutionary Think]

Sounds good in theory but, fails in practice. Look at the first Bioshock game which @Leo Gura was a part of making and also take a look at Somalia and Liberia which Leo has on his blog. 

   

[Forestluv]

On 8/20/2019 at 5:27 PM, Bodigger said:

With that being said along with the bank CEO you would advocate taking money from me, which I earned (The way I see it) and passing it off to everyone who is a citizen of the U.S. or do they need to be a citizen?

This misses the part about wealth inequality. I want programs, laws and regulations that promote fairness and equality. 

Consider the big picture. Here is one example:

Public pays taxes -> National Institutes of Health -> Drug research and design at Universities -> Pharmaceutical companies sell drugs and keep all the profits.

What’s wrong with this flow of money? The pharmaceutical companies are getting free labor and we are paying for it. Think about that. . . Your tax dollars are essentially paying the salaries of pharmaceutical employees. The pharmaceutical company then sells the drugs we already paid to create back to us at outrageous prices - and keeps all the profits!. Pharmaceutical CEOs are making hundreds of millions dollars off this scam. It’s like the teenagers pickpocketing the tourists, taking all the money and then charging the tourist to get their wallet back. It is unethical and we are getting screwed over. 

This is but one of many scams going on screwing over the lower and middle class. The lower class is already poor, so most of the wealth theft comes from the middle class. I am not on the scammers side. I am on your side. A pharmaceutical CEO is having a cocktail on his yacht laughing at how he ripped off Boddigger and she doesn’t even know it. He is laughing because billionaires have convinced thousandaires that the penniless are the problem. 

So no, I would not take your money. I’d go up to the pharmaceutical CEO, take the money he stole from you and give it back to you. 

Most people don’t see this dynamic because billionaires, politicians and the media create a smokescreen to keep the scam going. Yet people are starting to wake up and some politicians, like Bernie Sanders, are well aware of these scams and have the courage to speak up for us.

 

[Revolutionary Think]

11 minutes ago, Serotoninluv said:

like Bernie Sanders

You mean like Andrew Yang because the super rich who keep some people unemployed by automating jobs and using AI will have their money recycled into the working class and poor economy. Under a $15 minimum wage it doesn't happen. 

[Forestluv]

13 minutes ago, Revolutionary Think said:

You mean like Andrew Yang because the super rich who keep some people unemployed by automating jobs and using AI will have their money recycled into the working class and poor economy. Under a $15 minimum wage it doesn't happen. 

I like Yang’s future thinking and the principal of BI, yet I think the potential of BI will be greatly diminished by the the ultra wealthy and corporatism - they specialize in transferring money toward themselves. If we give BI, most of it will get stolen back by the ultra wealthy through various schemes - loans, tax schemes etc. I think it’s critical to change the infrastructure and power dynamics. In this area, I think Bernie and Warren are are strongest. Yet I think Yang is strong on future thing of AI. I think further development in AI will cause a lot of issues we are not preparing for. And of course that is the perfect environment for opportunistic power brokers to take advantage.

[Revolutionary Think]

He has way more policies than BI and has a plan to deal with economic crime. https://www.yang2020.com/policies/economic-crime/   

[Revolutionary Think]

[Bodigger]

22 hours ago, Serotoninluv said:

This misses the part about wealth inequality. I want programs, laws and regulations that promote fairness and equality.

Public pays taxes -> National Institutes of Health -> Drug research and design at Universities -> Pharmaceutical companies sell drugs and keep all the profits.

It doesn't sound like government is doing a good job with this.  But then, where does government do good for the people?  The answer to a problem is not to add more of the same thing.

22 hours ago, Serotoninluv said:

So no, I would not take your money. I’d go up to the pharmaceutical CEO, take the money he stole from you and give it back to you. 

Most people don’t see this dynamic because billionaires, politicians and the media create a smokescreen to keep the scam going. Yet people are starting to wake up and some politicians, like Bernie Sanders, are well aware of these scams and have the courage to speak up for us.

The CEO will just raise the prices, thus taking my money.  I know, you will put safety net in their for me, but I don't trust the government to either write it up correctly or implement it. 

[RichardY]

@Bodigger
The "Homesteading Principle" loses it's meaning, when all fundamental assets are owned. Either directly, or indirectly through rentier classes. The board is sold. If based on "economic activity" collecting £200 for passing Go, as UBI makes no difference as a whole. If based on economic activity all that will happen is "rent seeking". The Landlords game or Monopoly. Plus the cost of the bankers fee.

If the fundamental assets are redistributed. To base existence level, then people are not dependent on the Government or Corporations. Making possible cooperatives. 1% owning 40%+ of the worlds wealth, let alone, base assets hidden in shell companies. I find it hard to believe they're just that good. Given modern computing technology, management, laws regulation, patents etc. Where is the original creativity?

The government does a good job at killing or neutralising people, it should retain that position, only.

Socialism, would be state owned assets. Railways, Trains, Hospitals, Oil & Mineral Wealth. Communism, the abolition of private property. 

It's either Communism or Distributivism. Capitalism and Socialism are false Dichotomies.

 

[Revolutionary Think]

1 hour ago, RichardY said:

false Dichotomies.

That's the main problem because @Bodigger seems stuck in that paradigm. We can at least have capitalism that doesn't start at 0. 

[Forestluv]

20 hours ago, Bodigger said:

But then, where does government do good for the people?  The answer to a problem is not to add more of the same thing.

The CEO will just raise the prices, thus taking my money.  I know, you will put safety net in their for me, but I don't trust the government to either write it up correctly or implement it. 

You said earlier that you want to keep your gun to protect yourself from thugs. Why on earth would you give your gun to the thugs in this situation?

Some billionaires and corporate CEOs/lobbyists are thugs. They bully and ripoff the public. The pharmaceutical industry leeches off public funding and charges outrageous prices. The health care industry drive families with a medical condition into bankruptcy. The banking industry drove tens of thousands of people into homelessness through toxic loans to squeeze out more profits. The military industry pushes us into perpetual wars around the globe. The oil and gas industry is leading the charge to destroy the planet. This is major thuggery. 

The last thing we need to do is roll over and give corporations more power. They have waaay too much power. We need to shift power toward people to evolve upward from Orange to Green. And that means electing officials not owned by corporate money, overturning citizens united, increasing corporate transparency and accountability, and supporting systems that give the public negotiating leverage. 

There are some good candidates running for office now that can help. 

[Leo Gura]

On 8/22/2019 at 2:05 PM, Revolutionary Think said:

Look at the first Bioshock game which @Leo Gura was a part of making...

I did not work on the 1st Bioshock game. I worked on the sequel: Bioshock Infinite.

[AleksM]

Andrew Yang to become the next president of United States of America in 2020! #andrewyang #yang2020 #ubi #universalbasicincome

[Dodo]

Yes ofcourse, when AI Does all the job for us, everyone will be able to play the harp all day and enjoy being without doing a lot more. Because the machines will be doing most doings

[Donald]

 

UBI cannot work unless all WARS are ended. Nations must realize that waging wars is just a waste of money and human life. And by reducing/eliminating ALL military spendings, it will not have a huge impact on taxes.

But again, we are talking about making changes to a  VERY complex system. 

 

P.S The pendulum must swing from Fear to LOVE. 

[RichardY]

18 hours ago, Revolutionary Think said:

That's the main problem because @Bodigger seems stuck in that paradigm. We can at least have capitalism that doesn't start at 0. 

There's "States" in socialism(Empirical) and "Estates" in Capitalism(Rational). Communism has no state. What I'm suggesting is a Manorial system. So there's a more even distribution of power.

Without mass marketing, there can be no Capitalism, a unit of World currency takes over. In the past Gold and Silver. For now the dollar. Would be like originally purchasing land and goods from Ameri-indians, With gold nuggets, lying around for firewater and firearms. If the community is stable it isn't a problem.

A manorial system Paid for upfront in blood or compassion, as opposed to in arrears. The kingdom of God is not in word, but in Power.

[Bodigger]

@Serotoninluv People have the power.  They just don't know how to use it.  I see people complain and complain about those evil corporations, yet the majority of the complainers are still buying their products and own stocks in them.  Yes, their are many thugs in the corporate world, but there are thugs all around us.  Most likely they are not truly happy and that is where we can be an example and show them a way.  Controlling others has never brought happiness but controlling ourselves may.  Most likely, if any of this does take place, it won't happen in our lifetime so for now, do what you can and help out.......one person at a time.

@Revolutionary Think So you think that I am stuck.....I am open to many ideas.  the fact that I don't think like you or many who agree with you does not mean that I am stuck.  Show me an example of things I have said which makes you say that.  A great man once said, "shhhhhh.......here that sucking sound?  That's the government sucking your money out of your bank account".