Free Will

[Beginner Mind]

This is an interesting take on free will that many of you won't agree with, but for some it may resonate. 

According to Ramesh Balsekar, your free will is based on two factors: (1) Your genes, and (2) Your conditioning.  You had no control over the parents you were born to, and hence no control over your genes.  You had no control over the conditioning that you received while growing up -- conditioning from your parents, from school, from society, etc. 

So if your free will is based on these two factors, genes and conditioning, over neither of which you had any control, then is it truly your free will? 

 

[SoonHei]

@Beginner Mind nothing new here

 

There both is and isn't free will, depending on which prespective you look at.

Actors in a movie are given the lines and their directions... No free will. & Their characters being portrayed apparently have free will

 

Also. That dude's videos are nice. Watch more of em!

 

 

[Beginner Mind]

@SoonHei The genes + conditioning angle is a somewhat original approach to this topic, so I thought some people here might benefit from it, as I have.

And yes, I agree, Gautam Sachdeva has some excellent videos available.

[Harikrishnan]

Then again you can move away from all conditioning thats what self actualization is for. And have more beautiful predetermined life ?

[Truth Addict]

My deepest realisation yet is that Slavery = Freedom. In other words, for you to have total freedom, everything must be predetermined. But this is kind of hard to explain.

Edited August 15, 2019 by Truth Addict

[Mason Riggle]

I would suggest watching any of Leo's videos on duality (non-duality)... the free will/no free will duality is one of many which can be transcended.  

"Of course I have free will, I don't have any choice in the matter." 

 

Edited August 15, 2019 by Mason Riggle

[Beginner Mind]

@Harikrishnan It's not possible to transcend your conditioning.  Your conditioning is always being altered and updated, but never transcended.  Any changes or growth that occur through self-actualization work is simply your conditioning being updated.

Edited August 15, 2019 by Beginner Mind

[Forestluv]

16 hours ago, Beginner Mind said:

This is an interesting take on free will that many of you won't agree with, but for some it may resonate. 

According to Ramesh Balsekar, your free will is based on two factors: (1) Your genes, and (2) Your conditioning.  You had no control over the parents you were born to, and hence no control over your genes.  You had no control over the conditioning that you received while growing up -- conditioning from your parents, from school, from society, etc. 

This is based on “nature and nurture” theories. It has value in relative contexts, yet ultimately it all collapses to nothing/everything. There isn’t even a “you”. What caused your gene sequence? And what caused those causations to cause your genetic sequence? And the causations of the causations of those causations that caused your genetic sequence? Eventually you get to One everything/nothing and the whole “me” house of cards comes crashing down.

16 hours ago, Beginner Mind said:

So if your free will is based on these two factors, genes and conditioning, over neither of which you had any control, then is it truly your free will?

It goes even deeper. That “you” in bold doesn’t exist.

 

[Beginner Mind]

9 minutes ago, Serotoninluv said:

This is based on “nature and nurture” theories. It has value in relative contexts, yet ultimately it all collapses to nothing/everything. There isn’t even a “you”. What caused your gene sequence? And what caused those causations to cause your genetic sequence? And the causations of the causations of those causations that caused your genetic sequence? Eventually you get to One everything/nothing and the whole “me” house of cards comes crashing down.

It goes even deeper. That “you” in bold doesn’t exist.

 

In this particular teaching, it is said that one must always live as an ego.  Even Ramana Maharshi responded to his name being called.

I view this teaching as valuable for those of us who have not tasted enlightenment.  A consolation prize, if you will.  A teaching that suggests that the ego is not a problem, but rather a natural happening within the totality.

[Forestluv]

46 minutes ago, Beginner Mind said:

In this particular teaching, it is said that one must always live as an ego.  Even Ramana Maharshi responded to his name being called.

You are transcendent of this teaching and Ramana Maharishi. Both are creations of You.  

46 minutes ago, Beginner Mind said:

A teaching that suggests that the ego is not a problem, but rather a natural happening within the totality.

I also see value in that. ? 

[Beginner Mind]

52 minutes ago, Serotoninluv said:

You are transcendent of this teaching and Ramana Maharishi. Both are creations of You.

This may be true, but it's definitely not my experience.  In my experience, I am a mere body-mind organism, programmed with certain genes and conditioning.  For now, that's good enough. 

[Forestluv]

4 minutes ago, Beginner Mind said:

This may be true, but it's definitely not my experience.  In my experience, I am a mere body-mind organism, programmed with certain genes and conditioning.  For now, that's good enough. 

That is a major insight that few people realize. I think the realization of the illusory sense that I have free will is one of the most important doors to open. Related to this is the realization that I am not the author of my thoughts. 

[Beginner Mind]

1 hour ago, Serotoninluv said:

That is a major insight that few people realize. I think the realization of the illusory sense that I have free will is one of the most important doors to open. Related to this is the realization that I am not the author of my thoughts. 

Yes.  Sometimes when speaking to my mother the thought will arise, "You're ugly".  Who would ever choose to think such a thought about their own mother?  But this thought, like all other thoughts, is determined by my genes and conditioning.  Not my doing.  With that understanding comes tolerance and compassion.

[Forestluv]

53 minutes ago, Beginner Mind said:

But this thought, like all other thoughts, is determined by my genes and conditioning.  Not my doing.  With that understanding comes tolerance and compassion.

“There is no-doer” is a major realization and it helped me with harsh self-criticisms and regrets I carried. Yet “there is no-doer” can also get out of hand. I’ve seen people use “there is no-doer” to justify all sorts of behavior - which twists the realization out of context. 

[Beginner Mind]

37 minutes ago, Serotoninluv said:

“There is no-doer” is a major realization and it helped me with harsh self-criticisms and regrets I carried. Yet “there is no-doer” can also get out of hand. I’ve seen people use “there is no-doer” to justify all sorts of behavior - which twists the realization out of context. 

Yeah, I suppose it can be a dangerous teaching in some cases.  Most people actually don't want to hear that they're not responsible.  But for me there was an openness to that realization and it has brought some peace.