Anarchism is a clusterf**k

[Revolutionary Think]

This Dollar Vigilante guy just made a video attacking Yang and Bernie yet, when one does some digging on him you find how much fraud, lies, and insanity there is among the anarchist and libertarian communities. They're the ones that advocate that people just be free to do whatever the hell they want and then they're surprised when there are scam artists and thieves among them and they have no way of recouping financial losses and they want to do this to the rest of society at large smh. https://www.borderlessblog.com/jeff-berwick-is-a-conman-scam-artist-and-asshole/    

[brugluiz]

I tried to have an open-mind about libertarianism, but I still can't figure out how it would work.

[Revolutionary Think]

Libertarians have a closed mind about everything else. Although I heard that the Libertarianism of Europe is not the same as the US. US Libertarianism is an extremely virulent and compassionless form of every man for himself where the rich and powerful do whatever the hell they want and the ones with the least resources can be their slaves and that's "true freedom" in their warped and/or uninformed minds. 

[Leo Gura]

Cancer of the mind.

Notice that people who hold these ideologies have almost no historical understanding of how government works, nor do they have any understanding of human psychology.

It's simply ignorance, naivete, and arrogance rolled into one.

You'll notice that no country in the history of the Earth has ever been libertarian or anarchist. Because it doesn't work to meet the needs of the people, so it would never be tolerated. You'd have to be a fool to even begin implementing it because you would quickly be kicked out or killed.

Try to imagine a libertarian or anarchist going to Russia or China and promoting their agenda. LOL

[Yog]

Cyberpunk is the only place I've seen full libertarian societies btw. And its a sci-fi genre.

This is how its healthcare looks.

[RichardY]

The first Bioshock game is modelled on the ideas of Objectivism(Andrew Ryan,((Ayn Rand) Anarcho-Capitalism and Anarcho-Syndicalism.(Atlas). While not Anarchist, Objectivism splits into the capitalistic and social elements, a dispute that is resolved by force in the game piece of entertainment/pastime, to destruction. 

"No Gods or Kings only man." - Bioshock.

In an unenlightened society, the most sociopathic reign supreme, faster to process or sum over information/resources/initiative/distance.

Best some where in the middle between Anarchism and Tyranny, of various kinds. Crucially leaving God out of it, will lead to disaster, as any possibility for communication goes up in smoke.

Edited August 15, 2019 by RichardY

[Revolutionary Think]

@Leo Gura Agreed. I was part of a community a while ago that was all about Autonomy and they named the name of their course with the same name. Unfortunately it became a breeding ground for anti-government hate. Then when I said that I was for Andrew Yang and UBI they started lashing out at me in the craziest ways possible. The entire community had an ego backlash against me. 

That makes me wonder though... How would they feel if someone took everything from them except their underwear dropped them in the middle of the jungle with 0 resources and 0 money and just told them to become a millionaire in a year. How libertarian would they actually be with an experience like that? 

[Yog]

@RichardY Yep. Same thing there, Its always dystopian .... and on the other side of the table sits Orwell.
As I see it, its a play between the poles of No-Government and Full-Government. Both ends being dystopian.
That's what artists want, the ends.
Its a smart mix that we actually want.

Edited August 15, 2019 by Yog

[tenta]

4 hours ago, Revolutionary Think said:

@Leo Gura Agreed. I was part of a community a while ago that was all about Autonomy and they named the name of their course with the same name. Unfortunately it became a breeding ground for anti-government hate. Then when I said that I was for Andrew Yang and UBI they started lashing out at me in the craziest ways possible. The entire community had an ego backlash against me. 

That makes me wonder though... How would they feel if someone took everything from them except their underwear dropped them in the middle of the jungle with 0 resources and 0 money and just told them to become a millionaire in a year. How libertarian would they actually be with an experience like that? 

 

The thing is, if they're going with a "I'm gonna just be out for myself" ideology, why not still vote for UBI when it would benefit them the most? Sounds like they would mostly crumble when their privilege was pointed out to them

They don't want freedom, they want anarchy to serve them

[Leo Gura]

5 hours ago, Revolutionary Think said:

@Leo Gura Agreed. I was part of a community a while ago that was all about Autonomy and they named the name of their course with the same name. Unfortunately it became a breeding ground for anti-government hate. Then when I said that I was for Andrew Yang and UBI they started lashing out at me in the craziest ways possible. The entire community had an ego backlash against me. 

I'm glad you had enough wisdom to escape that cult.

Quote

That makes me wonder though... How would they feel if someone took everything from them except their underwear dropped them in the middle of the jungle with 0 resources and 0 money and just told them to become a millionaire in a year. How libertarian would they actually be with an experience like that? 

That's the trick, libertarians don't really think much about how others struggle. They assume that everyone in the world is as comfy and privileged as them.

When you live in a peaceful white suburban neighborhood with nice streets, clean water, good grocery stores, in the wealthiest country on the planet, life seems easy and all you could ask for is more personal freedom. The libertarian does not consider what life is like for a disabled single mother working two minimum wage jobs because her parents were drug addicts and sexually molested her and didn't have enough money to send her to private school and university. Such cases are not part of the libertarian reality.

[Leo Gura]

55 minutes ago, tenta said:

why not still vote for UBI when it would benefit them the most?

UBI is actually a quasi-libertarian thing. Many technocrats and libertarian types propose the UBI as a replacement for all the welfare systems. Which is very problematic.

There are good and there are bad ways to do UBI. If UBI is proposed as a replacement for all social benefit programs, that's very problematic.

[Aeris]

What types of society is described in brave new World on a political scale ?

Isn't this society described by Aldous Huxley born from 'free capitalism' ?

[Revolutionary Think]

9 hours ago, tenta said:

They don't want freedom, they want anarchy to serve them

Extremely selfish people thinking they are the benevolent liberators of humanity smh. 

[Revolutionary Think]

8 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

UBI is actually a quasi-libertarian thing. Many technocrats and libertarian types propose the UBI as a replacement for all the welfare systems. Which is very problematic.

There are good and there are bad ways to do UBI. If UBI is proposed as a replacement for all social benefit programs, that's very problematic.

I agree if someone needs more than $1000 to survive because of circumstances not in their control I can understand that UBI can't replace the welfare state... YET a lot of people fall into the holes of the social safety net, hate the hoop jumping, and sometimes have to deal with institutions and case managers that are rude and harassing. It's a very paternalistic system. Also on the other hand there are people like me who feel stuck in a rut want to do something like start a business and/or a passion project but, we're in a constant state of breaking even or even making no money at all. This would provide a catalyst for people to be creators, inventors, and thinkers instead of wage slaves. On the other hand it'll also save people who feel stuck into joining a predatory MLM or a shitty job that treats them badly. So I wouldn't be too quick to call a UBI a libertarian trojan horse if it's opt in and really lets people concentrate on something more than being a wage slave. @Leo Gura I think you should read this https://medium.com/basic-income/there-is-no-policy-proposal-more-progressive-than-andrew-yangs-freedom-dividend-72d3850a6245  

[RichardY]

@Aeris
Brave New World is a hive organisation, moving towards a "Tech singularity", it is a communist society. (after the main antagonist Berhnard Marx)Where people are genetically bred mostly in test-tubes to fulfil varying roles in society. The Alphas are business leaders and administrators, The Beta's the lieutenants. Females are divided into ones that can breed referred to as "Free Martins".(Free discipline) and ones that can't. Deltas fulfil the role of mechanics and technicians. Gammas are a kind of mutated Alpha, and the main antagonist in the plot Berhnard Marx. Omega's are referred to as "World Controllers."(Serve Satan). The majority of the population is kept drugged on a substance called soma, education is strictly controlled and sexualised from an early age.

All the best quality land is reserved for the majority of the World's population. With a mythical Island(That may or may not exist) reserved for misfits.

The least viable land is left as an Indian reservation, where the main protagonist "John" grows up, who eventually hangs himself at the end of the book.

[Aeris]

2 minutes ago, RichardY said:

@Aeris
Brave New World is a hive organisation, moving towards a "Tech singularity", it is a communist society. (after the main antagonist Berhnard Marx)Where people are genetically bred mostly in test-tubes to fulfil varying roles in society. The Alphas are business leaders and administrators, The Beta's the lieutenants. Females are divided into ones that can breed referred to as "Free Martins".(Free discipline) and ones that can't. Deltas fulfil the role of mechanics and technicians. Gammas are a kind of mutated Alpha, and the main antagonist in the plot Berhnard Marx. Omega's are referred to as "World Controllers."(Serve Satan). The majority of the population is kept drugged on a substance called soma, education is strictly controlled and sexualised from an early age.

All the best quality land is reserved for the majority of the World's population. With a mythical Island(That may or may not exist) reserved for misfits.

The least viable land is left as an Indian reservation, where the main protagonist "John" grows up, who eventually hangs himself at the end of the book.

Woaw thanks for the output. Didn't read the entirety and it was a long time ago.

And I know that Aldous did psychedelics so I liked his pov. ( But not always from his Books : more about himself )

[RichardY]

@Aeris I thought it was odd Aldous Huxley, JFK and C.S Lewis all died on the same day.

I haven't read or listened to "The perennial philosophy", but I did listen to "Brave New World" on Audible a while a go. 1984 was better written as a novel, although Brave New World is somewhat darker.

[brugluiz]

18 hours ago, Revolutionary Think said:

Libertarians have a closed mind about everything else. Although I heard that the Libertarianism of Europe is not the same as the US. US Libertarianism is an extremely virulent and compassionless form of every man for himself where the rich and powerful do whatever the hell they want and the ones with the least resources can be their slaves and that's "true freedom" in their warped and/or uninformed minds. 

Yeah, there is a guy here in Brazil who has a famous YouTube channel about libertarianism (anarchocapitalism) and I can't digest his ideas. I think libertarianism lacks a basic foundation and this idea of "no violence" is not accurate. It's in fact naïve to think that everybody would agree about this "no violence" stuff.

From a psychological perspective, men have an inner warrior that, out of balance, can become a shadow warrior and even kill people sadistically. Men also have an inner king that, out of balance, would become a tyrant. So how these out of balance archetypes would work on a libertarian society? I don't know how because I never saw a perfect society where everybody is balanced.

I'm aware of my potential to evil, so I wouldn't think a libertarian society would fit me. If there are perfect guys out there, okay, maybe it works, but I never met any of them.

[Revolutionary Think]

2 minutes ago, brugluiz said:

From a psychological perspective, men have an inner warrior that, out of balance, can become a shadow warrior and even kill people sadistically. Men also have an inner king that, out of balance, would become a tyrant.

Other forms of violence other than physical violence. Even if no one raises a hand on your neglect is still a form of abuse so other man's inner kings in a libertarian society will neglect to take care of the most vulnerable people. Then there's the inner warrior that you see in online comment fights where people turn into keyboard warriors and will even go so far as to tell people to go commit suicide and they are better off dead online so they can cause big psychological harm to people. Then (we even have a form of it now) the shadows of these men will create a system so dysfunctional and devilish that when all the power is consolidated through resource gathering and a rigged economy and when shit hits the fan and people get so pissed at these corrupt devils and liars they will project and say you see "these people are violent and unreasonable they are violating the non-aggression principle" it's very easy to do that when you mess everything up in the shadows ruin people's lives in tricky ways where you're not "physically attacking them" yet, you are stacking all the cards against them in a tricky way and then talking about yourself as this non-violent benevolent savior of humanity.  

[Revolutionary Think]

As I talk about rigged here's a man who's acknowledging it https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2019/08/andrew-yang-2020-message/596122/