How To Know If Enlightenment Is Real Or Just Insanity?

[Zorka]

@Leo Gura I get that you see it that way. But you probably know how it feels to not have the degree of consciousness and questioning all this with the rational mind.

What can I do with the information that sanity and insanity is the same or real and unreal is the same? It doesnt get me anywhere. So I should just turn of my rationality and do something because someone says it's the right thing to do?

I don't say it isn't and I am really interested but I need to know if there is really something valuable here.

[DocHoliday]

@Zorka Well, look, you will find anything "valuable" in all of this if you really want to find it. But no one on this forum could somehow convince you of anything that you couldn't convince yourself of first. Do whatever you think is best for you right now, and you will see what comes as a result of that. Don't pressure yourself into something that you're still on the fence about. 

[SoonHei]

@Zorka

3 minutes ago, Zorka said:

I need to know if there is really something valuable here.

reviews of the ones who have been on the path and made it to the destination state: end of suffering, no anger, love for all, deep unending/un-caused joy and peace, no judgement, no hatred, peace of mind

 

it's like you're reading a review on google for a restaurant or a service business

ultimately you must walk the path for yourself to see it to be the case.

 

and it will take time and dedication - and interest

5 minutes ago, Zorka said:

I am really interested

so good  

 

get to work! 

[Zorka]

@DrMobius  I know I am not welcomed here with such questions but: How can you know that it isn't just the drug altering your state of consciousness and showing you some stuff that you think is real even though it isnt? Just because you are convinced that means nothing

[DocHoliday]

@Zorka Hah  See, you gotta watch out what you call "real" and "not real". It is impossible to be conscious of anything that is "not real" i.e. "nonexistent", which is probably what you really mean by saying "not real". Everything is real, doesn't matter in which state of consciousness it is experienced because all there is is Consciousness. It's all part of the same... stuff. There aren't any actual, distinct, or "real" separations or borders between anything at all.

[Zorka]

@DocHoliday Yes of course the experience is real. But the question is if the insight you get is actually something truthful or not

[DocHoliday]

@Zorka What insight? The "insight" of Enlightenment?

[SoonHei]

@Zorka understand that the answers you seek will be understood with words

 

EARTH IS ROUND - this is a fact for you. you take it for granted.

but go back 2000 years and try to tell those people earth is round and then prove it with words.

you can't.

if you could fly them out into space and show them the round earth, they would see.

 

same thing here. 

23 minutes ago, Zorka said:

How can you know that it isn't just the drug altering your state of consciousness and showing you some stuff that you think is real even though it isn't?

this question drops in EXACTLY the same manner as when you fly a dude from 2000 BC to space and SHOW HIM the round sphere called Earth and not a FLAT EARTH.

 

direct confirmation / experience is where all the answers lie. 

Edited August 14, 2019 by SoonHei

[Zorka]

@DocHoliday I mean the insights some people get while meditating or on Psychedelics. Stuff like "We are all one" or "You are God and I am God" or "There is no self"

[DocHoliday]

@Zorka Yeah, what he -> @SoonHei said. 

Edited August 14, 2019 by DocHoliday

[DocHoliday]

@Zorka You will know that these kinds of realizations will be truthful because as you realize these things they will be more real to you than anything else you ever believed to be truly real before. But as it has been pointed out just now, Truth only comes with direct experience. No words will do any of this justice.

[traveler]

The word enlightenment is not real. That which the word points to is the only real thing that exists, and of course it is not a thing. You start of seeking enlightenment because of the idea that it is the thing that will finally fulfill you. When it shows up in a glimpse it will show you that it has nothing to do with you, the one that you think that you are. The one that you think that you are will slowly dissolve, and reality will slowly become more and more evident.

[SunnyNewDay]

It can drive you to insanity. That's what I've felt like at times after taking ayahuasca and it's made me face some absolute horrible feelings and thoughts but I've also seen the parting of the clouds so I'm 50/50.

I'd say not worry about the frivolous stuff in your opening post and more about your own well being while pursuing, choosing proper techniques, taking it slow, etc. You don't have to rush anything... just pursue gently and prioritize self love and acceptance.

[AlldayLoop]

Ask winterknight

[Leo Gura]

2 hours ago, Zorka said:

@Leo Gura I get that you see it that way. But you probably know how it feels to not have the degree of consciousness and questioning all this with the rational mind.

What can I do with the information that sanity and insanity is the same or real and unreal is the same? It doesnt get me anywhere. So I should just turn of my rationality and do something because someone says it's the right thing to do?

I don't say it isn't and I am really interested but I need to know if there is really something valuable here.

Your mistake is sitting there thinking about all this with your mind.

Instead, you must do the practices.

All your rationalizing is just a waste of time. You will never figure it out that way.

If you want to get somewhere, go do psychedelics, or Kriya yoga, or mindfulness meditation. Do it seriously and rigorously, like it's the most important pursuit in your life, more important than money, sex, entertainment, or comfort.

You cannot understand the things I teach without doing serious practices. It's just that simple.

Do, or do not. Speculation and theorizing will get you nowhere.

Common sense should tell you that there must be a heavy, heavy cost to awakening, otherwise everyone would be awake.

[SunnyNewDay]

3 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Your mistake is sitting there thinking about all this with your mind.

Instead, you must do the practices.

All your rationalizing is just a waste of time. You will never figure it out that way.

If you want to get somewhere, go do psychedelics, or Kriya yoga, or mindfulness meditation. Do it seriously and rigorously, like it's the most important pursuit in your life, more important than money, sex, entertainment, or comfort.

You cannot understand the things I teach without doing serious practices. It's just that simple.

Do, or do not. Speculation and theorizing will get you nowhere.

Common sense should tell you that there must be a heavy, heavy cost to awakening, otherwise everyone would be awake.

what if the pursuit worsens a mental illness? Is it okay to back off and take it slower?

[Leo Gura]

3 hours ago, Zorka said:

@DocHoliday Yes of course the experience is real. But the question is if the insight you get is actually something truthful or not

Stop talking and actually go do it and see.

It's as if people are telling you about this wonderful land called Australia and you are sitting there at your keyboard asking questions about how anyone could possibly know Australia is real.

GO THERE AND FIND OUT! If it's bogus, you'll discover that once you get there.

[AlldayLoop]

 

52 minutes ago, SunnyNewDay said:

what if the pursuit worsens a mental illness? Is it okay to back off and take it slower?

Well if you want some reassurance, the pursuit made my life a hella a lot better. I’m not enlightened, so what, I’m happy, functional, and my intentions are more clear.

I think the problem with this work is people want to awaken on the condition that... ________

Thats fine. You won’t fail in the end. Even if you get worse your intuition will guide you. You won’t turn in a psychopath if you do this work with honesty and an open heart.