How To Know If Enlightenment Is Real Or Just Insanity?

[Zorka]

Hello people!

First of all I want to mention that I am very open-minded. No matter what you tell me, I am going to think about it and reflect on it. My question right now however is: How to know if enlightenment is real? A lot of Gurus talk about it and also a lot of other People online. But how do you know that what you are experiencing is more than just insanity? Oftentimes people are having these awakenings after serious mental breakdowns. Sometimes they need years to achieve it. They read about it, they condition themselves, they meditate all day. How can you know that this is not just a mechanism of the mind? Even if it sounds stage orange to you, I think this is a question worth discussing.

The reason I am asking this is because I am interested in spirituality a lot. But my problem is that I want to live the best life possible. And enlightenment would be part of it if I knew it was real. But I dont want to go on a journey just because some people (who MIGHT be deluded) are telling me to do so. How can I find the right way? How can I know I am not doing some bullshit with this enlightenment work?

I hope you can help! Thank you!

[NoSelfSelf]

You can believe or do it yourself when i had full blown enlightement experience i couldnt believe that its real and that its so amazing ...

[Zorka]

@NoSelfSelf But how do you know that it is real enlightenment and not just positive emotions of the brain? Don't get me wrong. I don't doubt that people really experience what they are describing. My question is: How do you know that it is real? That it is more consciousness? More Truth? And not just Illusion and tricks of the mind?

[seeking_brilliance]

1 minute ago, Zorka said:

@NoSelfSelf But how do you know that it is real enlightenment and not just positive emotions of the brain? Don't get me wrong. I don't doubt that people really experience what they are describing. My question is: How do you know that it is real? That it is more consciousness? More Truth? And not just Illusion and tricks of the mind?

I just want to point out a problem with the words we use... you can't really have more consciousness if its true that everything IS consciousness. So you can't have more of it. But you can be more conscious of things, and even though the words are the same, and point toward similar things, I consider them two separate meanings. 

[Zorka]

@seeking_brilliance Ok fair enough. But how can we know that it really works that way? How can we know that everything is consciousness? Even if we experience this "truth"? How can we know its an actual truth?

[Fishy]

Maybe just try to not know if it's real or not and just do the work and see for yourself. This stuff has a lot to do with dropping beliefs not creating them. It's not about "positive emotions". You don't have to believe in enlightenment. What do you really know about anything? There is no grounds to build any beliefs upon really. All you can know is that you don't know. 

[Zorka]

@Fishy The question is just if it is worth pursuing. Because if it is just a mind hack I would not engage in it. If it is the way to truth however I would.

[WelcometoReality]

@Zorka You align yourself with what is true and discard that which is not true. Does that lead you to insanity?

[Zorka]

@WelcometoReality @WelcometoReality Of course not but what you describe is just seeking truth. My question is how you know that what you experience while "awakening experiences" is truth rather than delusion or a mind hack

[SoonHei]

@Zorka with that particular experience. you just KNOW.

it is beyond all doubts.

it is a KNOWING beyond words

a sense

like taste of a fruit, or a texture of an object, or the sound of an instrument

the taste, texture and sound are BEYOND words. 

they are, themselves the THING.

Words would be a symbol.

 

same way. the answer to your question is that you must seek-out the answer for yourself!

till then, trust the process.

and KNOW that it is not a trick of the mind.

 

rather, it is the seeing thru of the trick of the mind which you're under right now

 

[Zorka]

@SoonHei Sounds fine! But would you say that enlightenment makes you less capable and competent in the rest of life? Like business, relationships etc?

[ActualizedDavid]

3 minutes ago, Zorka said:

@SoonHei Sounds fine! But would you say that enlightenment makes you less capable and competent in the rest of life? Like business, relationships etc?

depends how you approach it.. but it shoud help

[WelcometoReality]

6 minutes ago, Zorka said:

@WelcometoReality @WelcometoReality Of course not but what you describe is just seeking truth. My question is how you know that what you experience while "awakening experiences" is truth rather than delusion or a mind hack

Yes. It's aligning yourself with truth. You look at a belief for example and ask is that true? And discard it if it's not. By doing that you align yourself with truth. Are you interested in truth? Do you want to align yourself with what is true? That is the main question. Seeking for this enlightenment thing will only lead yourself astray.

Is it truth or delusion? An enlightenment experience is only an experience. That will end in time. What remains is the knowing of what you are and that is a subjective truth. You will never be able to prove that to anyone else.

[Zorka]

@WelcometoReality Ok and why would you say is it worth pursuing?

[NoSelfSelf]

@Zorka Because you can see it,there is no brain there is only a godhead in that moment

[SoonHei]

@Zorka there is no telling what enlightenment may or may not do for Zorka.

sure, when there is enlightenment, there's an understanding of what's taking place so to speak and out of that understanding, ones actions, habits may change.

 

what you also first need to understand that Zorka is not the one who will get enlightened.

Zorka is the ME and the one who gets enlightened is YOU (the one who is listens these words as Zorka reads them)

 

so the way I can answer what you're asking here is to show you the futility of what you are asking.

17 minutes ago, Zorka said:

would you say that enlightenment makes you less capable and competent in the rest of life?

enlightenment is not something for Zorka. it is the end of Zorka... or rather, it is the end of YOU being identified with Zorka.

so enlightenment offers YOU peace & thus the end of any mental suffering as you SEE/KNOW that you are not Zorka or thoughts of Zorka.

 

and in this KNOWING, you act more authentically, fearlessly, etc etc...

enlightenment does not make someone a better athlete or a singer or anything else. even personal character traits needs to be worked on and improved. but it shows you, your true position from where you are watching... and you only really get somewhere when you got the horse leading the carriage.

 

try this image as well: 

me = zorka
Self = YOU

 

 

[WelcometoReality]

@Zorka It's only worth it if you value truth. If not it's better to do something you do value.

[Zorka]

@SoonHei Thank you very much for your answer! It brought some clarity even though it is very hard to grasp. So basicall what Zorka should do is just enagage in the practice until it turns himself off or goes silent for a second so that the real SELF can notice itself and awaken?

[SoonHei]

@Zorka first Zorka should recognize that the above was just Zorka speaking in 3rd person about Zorka

being true to your current understanding is the 1st step. 

 

but yes. practices are what get you there

and undersanding of what it is you're after... so reading, watching, listening - asking questions here on the forum to build a foundation + practicies.

 

often, less is more... you will find your mind's tendency to read and learn more and more without end... 

it's like a child asking a question... and asking follow up 1 word questions without end.

that question is WHY.

there's no end to the concepts, ideas or what you can learn.

so balance is the key. 

and trust the process. what you require will come to you when it's time.

[Leo Gura]

LOL

There is no difference between sanity and insanity, real and unreal.

You know by doing the work.

Your attitude inappropriate for this work. You lack seriousness.