Biggest Dilemma Yet!

[MarkusR]

So recently I found that enlightenment and/or awakening is not some happy-go-lucky process and that this journey seems to promise to be a lifelong challenge and is most likely to be the most difficult thing anyone could even wish to accomplish.

The thing is I have just recently began my journey toward actualization, self improvement, and molding a life that I can be proud of. I wanted to work hard, succeed in school, gain knowledge, build powerful relationships and create amazing lasting experiences. This all sounded like an amazing and fun plan for myself, then Leo hit me with enlightenment like a truck. First I saw it as a nice little side thing to have while im gaining all this success. I thought that I would work hard on all my endevours of life and have meditation on the side with self-inquiry, hoping to steadily work on becoming enlightened while I was also actualizing.

Then I found, through really looking deeply into what enlightenment is, that this is definitely not possible. Not only will this journey take up a big part of my life, to actually awaken this thing will have to literally kill the life I believe I am supposed to be living. Goodbye self improvement, goodbye "success", money, women, relation, enjoyable and intense "experience". It will all be wiped away by the warm "acid grace" of enlightenment.

So truly I do not know what I want. Right now I still have this ignorance, I could just hold on and let myself go with egoic pursuit and create an amazing actualized life Leo talks about. Then again I know that true freedom will only come with enlightenment. I wish that somehow I could combine the two, because in Leo's video he said that with self-actualization work self-transcendence should be able to seep in and somehow coexist with actualizing and work together to create a both beautiful AND divine life. To me I do not see how that could be possible.

So if anyone could help me, how can I combine these two? And if it isn't possible what path should I take?

[Corte]

It's not that it's not possible, just not yet. Leo's videos are probably the best out there to learn about this stuff, but this information is so easily obtained by someone who just happens to come across it. Before the Internet or self help books you could probably spend entire lifetimes without hearing of enlightenment or meeting anyone who was. 

The life you are building is part of your growth. Of course it doesn't make sense to throw that all away right now, and you don't have to. The more you peel back layers of consciousness to get more deeply in tune with yourself, the less important earthly activities will feel. It's like going to someone in the park and telling them they're empty nothing and everything they're working for right now doesn't matter and never will. 

You can learn a huge deal that will dramatically improve your life all-around beginning now. For example: how to be productive, how to have confidence, how to have better relationships, how to grow as a person. It sounds like you're having success doing this already. 

You can't understand the way Leo talks about enlightenment because you're not designed to do so. I think you should simplify your work load with the intention on growing yourself as a member of society and internally also. After these experiences you will have raised your consciousness and you will be looking for the next step. You have to be careful or this actualization work can really "ruin " your life ironically, like you've described. I believe you're on a wonderful path of self discovery and growth, but don't rush it. It's okay to be fully submersed in the physical world, and thus becomes so much more amazing while becoming increasingly aware. 

Let me know if this makes sense and if it helps at all! 

[Sri McDonald Trump Maharaj]

I don't know have time to think clearly but "Pursuing Consciousness" by Peter Ralston talks about this a lot, how transforming the self won't get you enlightend and how getting enlightend won't transform the self. It's one of my favourite books. But it should be read after reading "The Book of Not Knowing" by him aswell otherwise you'll be super confused.

[Ajax]

 Yes, there are multiple paths that eventually converge at "Truth".  I have chosen a path that is considerably different. The basic problem is the same on both ends. The distortion of perception.   This distortion is what is preventing us from seeing more truth and becoming free. Let's call this distortion "falseness"  Therefore the goal of both of these paths should be eliminating falseness. To the degree that your thoughts and activities depart from this goal, you are off the track.

There is a specific thought process that can be used to tackle this problem, but I won't share it because I will not violate the guidelines of this forum and promote a product. You may contact me, privately, if that is your wish.

[charlie2dogs]

3 hours ago, Corte said:

It's not that it's not possible, just not yet. Leo's videos are probably the best out there to learn about this stuff, but this information is so easily obtained by someone who just happens to come across it. Before the Internet or self help books you could probably spend entire lifetimes without hearing of enlightenment or meeting anyone who was. 

The life you are building is part of your growth. Of course it doesn't make sense to throw that all away right now, and you don't have to. The more you peel back layers of consciousness to get more deeply in tune with yourself, the less important earthly activities will feel. It's like going to someone in the park and telling them they're empty nothing and everything they're working for right now doesn't matter and never will. 

You can learn a huge deal that will dramatically improve your life all-around beginning now. For example: how to be productive, how to have confidence, how to have better relationships, how to grow as a person. It sounds like you're having success doing this already. 

You can't understand the way Leo talks about enlightenment because you're not designed to do so. I think you should simplify your work load with the intention on growing yourself as a member of society and internally also. After these experiences you will have raised your consciousness and you will be looking for the next step. You have to be careful or this actualization work can really "ruin " your life ironically, like you've described. I believe you're on a wonderful path of self discovery and growth, but don't rush it. It's okay to be fully submersed in the physical world, and thus becomes so much more amazing while becoming increasingly aware. 

Let me know if this makes sense and if it helps at all! 

How do you know what its like to live as a self realized being?  You don't but you are projecting thoughts about it from the identity and ego.  Your understanding and perception about this is just thoughts of the identity. If you feel like it is going to cost you everything and take away all your pleasures maybe your consciousness isn't awakening,  Those ideas are totally wrong. being self realized is not about giving up stuff and things, it is about who and what you really are.  Right now you are the fictitious identity functioning  under  programing and false beliefs that you hold and it is that which is making your decisions.   No self realized being got that way by giving up stuff.  When you are really interested in personal growth, as you move forward you will find that certain things will flow away from you, and you won't desire them,  its not about giving up what you think is bad, or bad habits,  It is about functioning from the core of your being, and enjoying what you do in life with peace and joy.

[Corte]

Hi @charlie2dogs , was I meant to be quoted?

[charlie2dogs]

1 hour ago, Corte said:

Hi @charlie2dogs , was I meant to be quoted?

what do you mean,

[charlie2dogs]

2 minutes ago, charlie2dogs said:

what do you mean,

i was responding to markus text

[MarkusR]

@Corte Thanks for the response. I definitely need to take into account simplicity as a virtue.

[MarkusR]

@charlie2dogs Hmm I see. Well like I said im still ignorant, and I feel like when I continue immersing my mind into life and development my ego grows and there is less and less peace. Maybe I need to separate myself more from the activities of life and my thoughts so I can always realize myself.

[charlie2dogs]

4 hours ago, MarkusR said:

@charlie2dogs Hmm I see. Well like I said im still ignorant, and I feel like when I continue immersing my mind into life and development my ego grows and there is less and less peace. Maybe I need to separate myself more from the activities of life and my thoughts so I can always realize myself.

Sometimes when someone is working on personal growth especially in earlier stages, it helps to separate oneself from certain things and people, which can give time for the personal growth without distractions, but having said that many get caught up in the giving up things thinking that is the way, but it isnt.  The ideal is to become self realized, and in that process the things in life that are causing you problems will begin to flow away from you.  After self realization life is much better because it keeps you in the space of now where life can only be lived constructively, and you no longer see things as problems.  It puts you in the drivers seat to determine what you allow or not allow to be in your life, and it requires no effort to do so, because in that space you see the reality of things and not just a perception of the identity.  When you rise above the workings of the identity and ego, life becomes much simpler, more enjoyable and more peaceful.  As a self realized being you will see and know many things that those who function in the identity cant see.   As a self realized being you will know people better than they know themselves.  Honestly i think many people spend too much time gathering information about personal growth and self realization than actually doing what would bring them into that state of being.  Once one becomes self realized it is easy then to see that it could have been done a much better way, but for most their programing and false belief system is holding them back

[MarkusR]

@charlie2dogs Great response! So I should let myself continue my journey in life, not necessarily needing to stop attaining knowledge and exterior growth. Let those happen and while this process, use meditation or other practices to keep myself humbled and in the grace of realization.

 

Addition:

And you are saying that it is not in-fact counter-intuitive to work on personal growth with enlightenment. I do feel though once I am self-realized all my growth success, money, knowledge will all lose a lot of their importance in the grand scheme of things .

Edited May 6, 2016 by MarkusR

[charlie2dogs]

Knowing what i know now, if i could do it again it would be much easier, I would do it without all the doctrines and philosophies, teachings, programs.  What i would do is two things, first one,  Instead of practicing meditation as is taught I would simply be still, be quiet, and experience the life force within myself,  more and more.  That alone will awaken you, one thing i would add to that i would work at being fully present and aware in the moment of life, and it isnt as easy as most think in the beginning.  Being present in the moment requires a lot of effort in the beginning,  But in time you can be in the space of the moment for longer periods.  These two things will carry you to self realization, they are the two keys that opens the door to your inner kingdom and will make self realization possible.