Why Evangelicals Support Trump

[Moreira]

catholic religion also told to the population that the european Kings were designed by the grace of God and people believed it.

masses can be so dumb.

[tenta]

39 minutes ago, Moreira said:

catholic religion also told to the population that the european Kings were designed by the grace of God and people believed it.

masses can be so dumb.

 

They don't have to be dumb, environments that reward deluded conformism also have people who just pretend to believe so they aren't punished, we see modern modern stage blue and orange environments like this too, even tho many are genuinely conforming

[Apparition of Jack]

3 hours ago, How to be wise said:

It’s unlikely. Government is so big after all.

Government doesn't exist in a vacuum. Government exists as the manifestation of the political and social ideas of the people within a country. Who knows. Maybe a future president or senator watched that video. 

[Bodigger]

5 hours ago, mandyjw said:

I started life at stage blue and I was Christian through almost all of stage green. Being a stage green Christian is the worst stage to go through. You LOATHE your fellow Christians for their materialism. They hate you and think you're the devil. The church and the fact they belong to it is a status symbol. You can't really relate to your atheist fellow stage green counterparts either. And yet, you know love is all there is for life to be about. But you don't actually love anyone. There are just about two things left for you to love. Jesus and trees. 

In stage yellow you realize that Jesus IS the trees, well maybe you knew that all along really and you drop your faith. I mean, you can see and hug trees but where the fuck are you Jesus? There's no need to separate Jesus from consciousness or God or other religions. Then after an awakening  who shows up on your path again? Jesus! Because you denied him, you didn't actually integrate him so he's come as part of your psyche to help you fix that. The whole entire time your life has only been about trying to understand those pointers, and that time when you denied him only served to speed up your progress in doing just that. That's a mind fuck. 

I just want to make the point that it's important to realize that religion is a path and not to judge entire groups of people as being at one stage. It's just not so neat and tidy as that.  

I was the hypocrite in the back praying for light sentence from God.  I thought if I went to Mass every week I wouldn't go to hell.  I didn't realize I was in hell.  Now I go for different reasons.  Thanks for the words mandyjw.

[Surfingthewave]

 @mandyjw

Where are you now with your beliefs? I'm fascinated by how these beliefs start, you've clearly had a struggle getting to where you are? 

On 14/08/2019 at 3:24 PM, mandyjw said:

Many churches and ministries are run like businesses. Being a Pastor or even a missionary means being a salesman complete with marketing skills being a necessity. 

Absolutely, this is why Evangelicals support Trump. He has sold them on issues discussed- anti abortion, anti LBGTQ+ etc etc, overriding his serious lack of IQ, and sexist / racist cacophony. 

[mandyjw]

46 minutes ago, Surfingthewave said:

 @mandyjw

Where are you now with your beliefs? I'm fascinated by how these beliefs start, you've clearly had a struggle getting to where you are? 

Absolutely, this is why Evangelicals support Trump. He has sold them on issues discussed- anti abortion, anti LBGTQ+ etc etc, overriding his serious lack of IQ, and sexist / racist cacophony. 

@Bodigger

46 minutes ago, Surfingthewave said:

 @mandyjw

Where are you now with your beliefs? I'm fascinated by how these beliefs start, you've clearly had a struggle getting to where you are? 

 

I'm not sure if struggle is the right way to look at it, though to my memory it certainly seems it was sometimes.  I now realize that I chose without choosing the path of devotion, I was born into it and Jesus was my chosen guru the whole time. I've had plenty of others, especially since moving beyond Christianity but they are all the same in the end. I have the same pattern where teachers that I would find and really resonate with I would quite quickly develop very strong emotional love toward. Looking back I understand it as the path of devotion and I think it is a common path for women and plenty of men.

There is a lot of potential for abuse as you can imagine if they chose a living "guru" or pastor or teacher who doesn't understand the path of devotion and doesn't live by a very strong moral code. Now I'm trying to pick up my love and take it with me wherever I go. It's easy to fully give yourself away to something when you're blind to everything but Love. It's harder to forget yourself and be blind to everything but Love when you're all that is. Training wheels are off, I've got lots of skinned up knees but goddamn it, I'll suffer through because I'm sick of you all making fun of my training wheels. 

[Surfingthewave]

@mandyjw

9 hours ago, mandyjw said:

@Bodigger

would quite quickly develop very strong emotional love toward. 

There is a lot of potential for abuse as you can imagine if they chose a living "guru" or pastor or teacher who doesn't understand the path of devotion and doesn't live by a very strong moral code. 

This is what is very worrying, the development of strong emotional love and devotion to individuals who are in fact not living by the book they are so devoted to. I think this type of hero worship no- matter- what is what is happening with Trump supporters as well as Christian groups as you describe.

I'm sorry if you felt I was making fun of you, rather the opposite - I respect your views and glad to hear you are able to express them honestly from a place of love. 

[mandyjw]

@Surfingthewave No, you didn't make me feel that way, I was just making a joke in general about the feeling toward organized religion here. Actually I've been amazed how open-minded everyone is. Our culture worships the individual, and the path to finding oneself so the path of devotion isn't understood well as being productive. Neither path ends in enlightenment but in combination, they do. Enlightenment is the combination of two paths and realizing the truth of both simultaneously, I am nothing, I am everything. 

I don't believe that Trump supporters of Christian groups are capable of any sort of devotion, though some of them certainly admire Trump because they like to see their own reflection. They are almost entirely built and fueled upon being against others. 

 

 

[Surfingthewave]

@mandyjw Devotion/ admiration - a very similar thing. I think you're absolutely right, our culture worships the individual and yes supporters of Trump, Christian or not, do see themselves in him, so in a way it becomes acceptable if not admirable to follow him and further validates extreme right wing views.  

[Leo Gura]

1 hour ago, mandyjw said:

I don't believe that Trump supporters of Christian groups are capable of any sort of devotion, though some of them certainly admire Trump because they like to see their own reflection. They are almost entirely built and fueled upon being against others.

You should watch the Netflix documentary: The Family

That will change your understanding.

Stage Blue can be extremely genuine in its devotion. That isn't the problem. The problem is that they cannot recognize that their devotional path is just one out of many others and not the best. This leads to a monomaniacal devotion which never doubts itself, where the ends justify any wicked means.

You are not yet properly understanding stage Blue. Study up on it.

[mandyjw]

22 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

You should watch the Netflix documentary: The Family

That will change your understanding.

Stage Blue can be extremely genuine in its devotion. That isn't the problem. The problem is that they cannot recognize that their devotional path is just one out of many others and not the best. This leads to a monomaniacal devotion which never doubts itself, where the ends justify any wicked means.

You are not yet properly understanding stage Blue. Study up on it.

OK, I'll watch it. I understand stage blue and spiral dynamics pretty well but I'm sure there's always a greater depth to it. When my husband and I were still engaged, my inlaws built their own beautiful church building because they are wealthy and didn't like any of the other churches around. They found this new Pastor who was very charismatic, but turned out to evil itself. I tried to pretend that I was not a she devil, and even attended almost every Sunday and pretended while everything was screaming inside me "NO!" but this pastor saw through me. As soon as he was given the position he started getting involved in the lives of church members, and tried to force my fiance to apologize for dating me and for going to a nearby college for engineering rather than a Bible college. My husband refused to apologize so his entire family shunned him for an entire year and left him with less than two weeks to figure out financing for his last year of college. They did it all out of blind obedience to their pastor.

The Pastor continued to rip his way through every single family in the church. After a year passed my inlaws woke up and kicked him out of the church but not before he had done a lot more damage to other families. They called the past churches the Pastor had been in charge of and he had done the same thing there. I can tell you endless stories like this, my parents have their own version of this story that's worse. My point is, I've seen and lived through that monomaniacal devotion more than you know. It only served to clarify what real devotion was and felt like and lead me further down that path. Understanding spiral dynamics (thanks to your videos) has given me a lot of peace and understanding to move beyond anger about the past.

I'm trying to make a distinction between devotion to a God or a mystical place, etc, which inevitably leads someone to their own intuition, guidance and inner being. That is entirely different from loyalty and love for one's own group or leader (collective ego). In my inlaw's church they loved to sing this song that went something like "Obedience is your very best friend, it shows that you believe." Stage blue devotion looks like obedience out of fear or love that is actually an egoic inclusive pride. Mystical devotion is pure Love. Every stage on the spiral embodies an understanding that is integrated, understood and experienced with a much greater depth, not thrown away.

I'm afraid that if people here in this community conflate stage blue devotion to one's own community or religion based on their "idea" of God... with stage turquoise or transition to turquoise devotion to a deity, that they will overlook a breathtakingly beautiful opportunity. 

Leo, you are a master of understanding. There's no end to understanding, it's infinite. It's key to breakthroughs and insights, yes. Psychedelics are a path of devotion, surrender to an "other", surrender to a substance, but they'll always wear off. They are the prostitute of enlightenment. You can't  expect her to stick around the next morning to pick your undies up off the floor for you and make breakfast. "Mind fuck" is not an accidental term. Find your Goddess. She doesn't actually exist outside of you of course, but she'll show you the way. Or God rather, if you'd prefer. 

[Surfingthewave]

@mandyjw Was the Pastor an abuser by any chance?

What is the beautiful breath-taking opportunity you refer to? 

I think the problem here is devotion. Blind devotion (Blind being key) of a higher power, I see it here on this forum. 

Btw, love the prostitute reference, no she won't stick around but by God you'll get addicted to her and want her to be your wife 

Edited August 16, 2019 by Surfingthewave

[mandyjw]

@Surfingthewave No, but I don't know what went on with his own family.

The beautiful opportunity is a love awakening. It's literally a can't eat, can't sleep fallen in love with life itself feeling of oneness. The object/guru/God acts as a focus point through which the power of love is concentrated, then the love grows to contain all that is. It opens yourself up to a power that causes you to act uncharacteristically, you aren't yourself anymore. It's the same thing that happens when you fall in love, the very same mechanism, only with an intention for enlightenment and nondual understanding it expands to include everything. Blind devotion is an unwillingness to consider or explore other paths. Can you see the subtle difference between focusing on something with all your power and choosing something in exclusion of other options? 

 

[Surfingthewave]

@mandyjw

Choosing something or being chosen? This is key. When you are "chosen" you are on a very different path. 

Focusing on something with all your power doesn't sound like awakening to me, but perhaps we're talking bout something else? 

[mandyjw]

3 hours ago, Surfingthewave said:

@mandyjw

Choosing something or being chosen? This is key. When you are "chosen" you are on a very different path. 

Focusing on something with all your power doesn't sound like awakening to me, but perhaps we're talking bout something else? 

The choosing/chosen duality merges. We are all the chosen one, because we chose ourselves, and we are all One. Love directed toward something is focus without effort, the word focus implies effort so it's probably not the best way I could have chosen to describe it. 

[Surfingthewave]

Absolutely - this choosing / chosen duality is what forms religious ideology, is it not? I'm still struggling with the we are all One part but I'm working on it 

[WorknMan]

On 8/14/2019 at 5:29 AM, mandyjw said:

The initial response to Trump from Evangelicals was disgust. In the primaries they campaigned HARD for Ted Cruz. But once the primaries were decided and it Trump or Hillary, it was over. . 

There is some evidence to back up what this poster is saying. Here's John MacArthur (a preacher that I greatly respected when I was at stage blue) talking about Trump before the primaries:

But he ended up voting for Trump anyway:

Insofar as stage blue is concerned, voting for Trump was a better choice than voting for whom they considered to be the devil incarnate who supported the murder of unborn children. Having said that, even when I was at stage blue, there was no way in hell I would've voted for Trump. Heck, I didn't even support George Bush Jr.

 

 

 

[Leo Gura]

Stage Blue has authoritarian tendencies. Because they like to follow a strong leader. So once a strong leader emerges by conquering everyone else, Blue falls in line and conforms.

Blue loves, loves, loves conformity. It gives Blue a sense of security & comfort.

Blue loves unambiguous black & white leadership style. Like in the military. Everyone knows his rank and knows exactly what is expected of him.

Blue makes excellent soldiers because they are so loyal. Of course the problem is, Blue also makes excellent Nazis.

[Sempiternity]

Just today Trump called himself "the second coming of God" and "the Chosen One". 

https://www.forbes.com/sites/lisettevoytko/2019/08/21/i-am-the-chosen-one-trumps-religious-comments-enrage-critics/
 

[abrakamowse]

On 8/14/2019 at 4:38 AM, tenta said:

On the other hand since abortion is killing

Abortion is a difficult topic, because on one hand you are killing a embryo and on the other hand people who want an abortion no matter, what will go even to any means to get the abortion, putting in risk the life of the baby and the mother too... so, is like choosing the lesser evil.

I think is worst not to give the option of a controlled abortion than to leave it in hands of unscrupulous "doctors" who perform abortions illegally. I have no numbers to support that, but I will take a look at that.

Edited August 22, 2019 by abrakamowse