Why Evangelicals Support Trump

[Leo Gura]

This is a revealing look into the Evangelical mind:

Notice that stage Blue -- because it is very conformist -- is extremely easy to fool and manipulate by a stage Red/Orange opportunist like Trump. A stage Blue person has no problem buying the idea that Trump is "a man of God".

Also notice how TYT (stage Green) struggles to understand stage Blue. It baffles TYT how stage Blue people can exist. They're constantly surprised by the foolishness of Blue.

A classic example of the Blue vs Green understanding gap.

[tenta]

Trump simply claims to support what they already support while they're afraid of other candidates who don't being president

On the other hand since abortion is killing there would be a silver lining to trump winning

[Leo Gura]

@tenta You need to educate yourself about women's reproductive issues.

[tenta]

53 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

@tenta You need to educate yourself about women's reproductive issues.

 

I am saying it is not a good thing for a future human to die, but in cases where condoms and birth control failed or weren't used then it could be necessary

One of the evangelicals is right in the sense that, if a democrat wins then 5000+ future humans (that are you) will be killed, it's worth it but it's an "ends justify the means" thing

Also an abortion ban would just make it so that more condoms/birth control is used

Edited August 14, 2019 by tenta

[Leo Gura]

@tenta I know what you are saying. Again, you need to educate yourself on women's reproductive issues.

Banning abortion is a terrible idea as you will create black markets and all sorts of health complications for a medical procedure which needed for many women. Not even to mention the human rights violations.

Trump banning abortions is NOT a silver lining. It is a massive regressive step for society.

[mandyjw]

The initial response to Trump from Evangelicals was disgust. In the primaries they campaigned HARD for Ted Cruz. But once the primaries were decided and it Trump or Hillary, it was over. They had already painted Hillary as a devil in their minds, mostly just for being a woman who wanted to hold a powerful position. Add to that the fact that she was the wife of someone they already didn't like for being a well liked Democrat who ALSO had a sex scandal in office... and it was very easy to gloss over Trump's immoral behaviors and stick with their party. 

Edited August 14, 2019 by mandyjw

[Leo Gura]

Evangelicals support Trump because he panders to all of their stage Blue values, including nationalism, anti-LGBTQ, anti-minority rights, anti-abortion, and anti-secularism.

[mandyjw]

Most evangelicals are already deeply into orange, though they still profess stage blue values, their hearts are elsewhere. I think that's the lesser known reason why Trump got as much support from them as he did. 

[Leo Gura]

42 minutes ago, mandyjw said:

Most evangelicals are already deeply into orange

I don't see evidence for that. The structure of their worldview and cognition is Blue, even if they start a business and earn some money.

Orange is more secular than religious.

[mandyjw]

@Leo Gura Here's what you don't see just because you're looking from the outside in, most Evangelicals are 100% secular.

They profess God with their lips but it doesn't go beyond the mind. Most have never known or felt what the Holy Spirit is, they have never felt what it is that they are supposed to be devoted to. Devotion is something entirely different from following the rules of the religion. As long as the religion is based on laws and rules it is secular, it is not faith based or religious. Most Christians literally believe that if you simply think a thought, maybe even say it out loud, then you go to heaven. Religion is beyond thought, devotion is beyond thought because God is beyond thought. They worship a thought. It doesn't get more secular than that. 

There is something called "Prosperity Gospel". It's the belief that if you do what God asks, God blesses you. That mindset allows you to take your stage blue rules along with you to stage orange quite smoothly. Many churches are very focused on money, on dressing nice to church, on tithing. Christian colleges are godawful expensive. At home, the other 6 days of the weak, money and materialism runs their lives. Most care more about the tax code and their own pockets rather than anyone else, including unborn babies. 

 

 

[How to be wise]

I’m still wondering why so much time is being spent learning about this, when we all know that no one here will have any significant impact on something as big as Evangelism. Can someone help me understand the point of talking about any of this.

Edited August 14, 2019 by How to be wise

[mandyjw]

3 minutes ago, How to be wise said:

I’m still wondering why so much time is being spent learning about this, when we all know that no one here will have any significant impact on something as big as Evangelism. Can someone help me understand the point of talking about any of this.

How do you know they won't? You can't make an impact or any positive change unless you really understand something inside and out. 

[Leo Gura]

15 minutes ago, mandyjw said:

They profess God with their lips but it doesn't go beyond the mind. Most have never known or felt what the Holy Spirit is, they have never felt what it is that they are supposed to be devoted to. Devotion is something entirely different from following the rules of the religion.

LOL

Yeah, that's Blue!

Consciousness of the Holy Spirit is WAY beyond what most Blue religious people ever experience. Blue religion is purely ideological for the most part. It is a set of beliefs.

[Leo Gura]

15 minutes ago, How to be wise said:

I’m still wondering why so much time is being spent learning about this, when we all know that no one here will have any significant impact on something as big as Evangelism. Can someone help me understand the point of talking about any of this.

The point is understanding how the human mind works. Changing Evangelicals is not the point.

[Spiral]

I think abortion should be legal until the day the child is born. Not for for woman’s sake but for the child’s. Being raised by people who doesn’t want you is not worth it.

Edited August 14, 2019 by Spiral

[How to be wise]

9 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

The point is understanding how the human mind works. Changing Evangelicals is not the point.

What about your video proposing 100 different policies? What was the point of that video, knowing that it will have close to no impact on government?

[DoubleYou]

5 minutes ago, How to be wise said:

What about your video proposing 100 different policies? What was the point of that video, knowing that it will have close to no impact on government?

It had an impact on me. And many others probably. Possible visionaries. Who may or may not have an impact on government at some point in their lifes.

Progress is a slow burn. But it has to start somewhere.

Edited August 14, 2019 by DoubleYou

[mandyjw]

2 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

LOL

Yeah, that's Blue!

Consciousness of the Holy Spirit is WAY beyond what most Blue religious people ever experience. Blue religion is purely ideological for the most part. It is a set of beliefs.

What is Christianity in practice but people trying to intellectually understand 2000 year old stage turquoise pointers with little guidance? There's a lot of cognitive dissonance required to do that, right from the start. It's no problem whatsoever for them to embody stage orange in their lives while keeping the comfort of their religious background. Come on Leo, Chick-Fil-A, Hobby Lobby, Walmart? Money and Jesus go together in this day and age like peanut butter and jelly. 

Spiral dynamics evaluates different sets of beliefs for each stage. Because the beliefs of a religion are arbitrary, since the foundation of religion is beyond belief, those beliefs can and do evolve and change. Even in the video the guy won't go so far as to say that Christianity is evil, he basically defines good Christians as those who pick and choose the "nice verses" the ones that fit with stage green values of course.

Yellow is the first stage that makes a false start at moving beyond a belief system. It's starting to get agnostic about having a belief system, but ironically their "not knowing" becomes itself a belief system. 

I experienced consciousness of the Holy Spirit in stage blue. Maybe that's only possible if you're a child at stage blue but I doubt it.  All the stages are gauges of one's intellectual understanding until stage turquoise, when one finally moves into nonduality. It's very possible to have mystical experiences at lower stages. We know this well from the example of stage purple. 

We also know that no one purely embodies stages, they are often or usually mixes of two or more. Most Evangelicals are at least very well rooted in orange. Many churches and ministries are run like businesses. Being a Pastor or even a missionary means being a salesman complete with marketing skills being a necessity. 

I started life at stage blue and I was Christian through almost all of stage green. Being a stage green Christian is the worst stage to go through. You LOATHE your fellow Christians for their materialism. They hate you and think you're the devil. The church and the fact they belong to it is a status symbol. You can't really relate to your atheist fellow stage green counterparts either. And yet, you know love is all there is for life to be about. But you don't actually love anyone. There are just about two things left for you to love. Jesus and trees. 

In stage yellow you realize that Jesus IS the trees, well maybe you knew that all along really and you drop your faith. I mean, you can see and hug trees but where the fuck are you Jesus? There's no need to separate Jesus from consciousness or God or other religions. Then after an awakening  who shows up on your path again? Jesus! Because you denied him, you didn't actually integrate him so he's come as part of your psyche to help you fix that. The whole entire time your life has only been about trying to understand those pointers, and that time when you denied him only served to speed up your progress in doing just that. That's a mind fuck. 

I just want to make the point that it's important to realize that religion is a path and not to judge entire groups of people as being at one stage. It's just not so neat and tidy as that.  

 

 

 

 

Edited August 14, 2019 by mandyjw

[Apparition of Jack]

2 hours ago, How to be wise said:

What about your video proposing 100 different policies? What was the point of that video, knowing that it will have close to no impact on government?

Who says it won't?

[How to be wise]

2 hours ago, Apparition of Jack said:

Who says it won't?

It’s unlikely. Government is so big after all.