New Age movement & Satanism

[Tausif Ahmed]

@Leo Gura @Preetom

NOTE: This is a complex Question I have & not a preaching or conspiracy,and I dont known anyone else whom I can ask this question.

There are striking similarities between New age spiritual practices and what is practiced by Satanists.Founders of New age movement (in this age) included some Satanists as well, which includes Helena Blavatsky,The Theosophical society and Aleister Crowley.

Anton Levay the founder of Church of Satan, and Satanism religion said:

“In the scores of books lining the shelves of New Age bookstores, there are instructions for guided meditation, creative visualizations, out of body experiences, getting in touch with your spirit guides, fortune telling by cards, crystal balls or the stars. What if Satanists reclaimed these for their own dark purposes and integrated them into rituals dedicated to the Devil, where they rightfully belong? New Agers have freely drawn upon all manner of Satanic material, adapting it to their own hypocritical purposes… But in truth, all ‘New Age’ labeling is, again, trying to play the Devil’s game without using His Infernal name. ” —Anton LaVey, quoted in Church of Satan, B. Barton, p.107

Aleister Crowley was a famous occultist and satanist from the 1900s.  He referred to himself as “The Beast 666” and once said ““I was not content to just believe in Satan, I wanted to be his chief of staff”.  He has openly admitted to making blood sacrifice to demons, which he believed jump started his success with magic.

Helena Blavatsky writes in The Secret Doctorine:

“Satan is the ‘Anointed Cherub’ of old. . . . God created Satan, the fairest and wisest of all his creatures in this part of His Universe, and made him Prince of the World, and of the Power of the Air…Thus, Satan being perfect in wisdom, and beauty, His vast empire is our earth, if not the whole solar system. . . . Certainly no other angelic power of greater or even equal dignity has been revealed to us.” (p. 229)

“Stand in awe of him, and sin not; speak his name with trembling . . . . For Satan is the magistrate of the justice of God (Karma); he beareth the balance and the sword . . . . For to him are committed Weight and Measure and Number.” and “It is “Satan who is the god of our planet and the only god,” and this without any allusive metaphor to its wickedness and depravity. For he is one with the Logos, “the first son, eldest of the gods,” (p.234)

“The glory of Satan is the shadow of the Lord”: God in the manifested world; “the throne of Satan is the footstool of Adonai” — that footstool being the whole Kosmos. (VidePart II., “Is Pleroma Satan’s Lair?”) When the Church, therefore, curses Satan, it curses the cosmic reflection of God; it anathematizes God made manifest in matter or in the objective; it maledicts God, or the ever-incomprehensible Wisdom, revealing itself as Light and Shadow, good and evil in nature, in the only manner comprehensible to the limited intellect of Man.  This is the true philosophical and metaphysical interpretation of Samael, or Satan” (p.235)

“But Satan will now be shown, in the teaching of the Secret Doctrine, allegorized as Good, and Sacrifice, a God of Wisdom, under different names.” (p.237)

“In this case it is but natural — even from the dead letter standpoint — to view Satan, the Serpent of Genesis, as the real creator and benefactor, the Father of Spiritual mankind. For it is he who was the “Harbinger of Light,” bright radiant Lucifer, who opened the eyes of the automaton created by Jehovah, as alleged; and he who was the first to whisper: “in the day ye eat thereof ye shall be as Elohim, knowing good and evil” — can only be regarded in the light of a Saviour.” (p.243)

“Satan, the enemy of God, is in reality, the highest divine Spirit” (p.377)

“The “Serpent,” moreover, is not Satan, but the bright Angel, one of the Elohim clothed in radiance and glory, who, promising the woman that if they ate of the forbidden fruit “ye shall not surely die,” kept his promise, and made man immortal in his incorruptible nature.” (p.388)

“Lucifer is divine and terrestrial light, the “Holy Ghost” and “Satan,” at one and the same time, visible Space being truly filled with the differentiated Breath invisibly; and the Astral Light” (p.513)

New agers argue: "There is no such thing as evil"

Yeah right, like what I am I supposed to call the massacre of Iraqi people commanded by Bush & Tony Blair or that of Syrians, Rohingyas, Africans ,Kashmiris, What ISIS(illicit child of Iraq war) is doing in Iraq and all over the world. If this is not evil, i dont know what is... and all due to 2 crazy men who were not given permission by UN but proceeded and now they are like " we're sorry it was mistake", mistake my foot, can you bring all those lives back?

 

I am Yet to find any New Ager or Spiritual person who has refuted these claims, Teal Swan made a video titled New age & Illuminati, but she just said people are close minded and stuff and did not address the real question which I have expressed above.

 

Edited August 13, 2019 by Tausif Ahmed

[tsuki]

Satanism and new age are related in the sense that an individual person ventures on the quest to liberate oneself through his own effort.
It does not necessarily entail doing things that are widely considered evil, but sorcerers and magicians oftentimes lose touch with their own human spirit and do things that are commonly considered as such. This is not something that is inherent in the occult practices - science and organized religion are subject to he same horrors. They happen when power (capability) is obtained and used without... God's guidance, or grace.

Satan is not opposed to God. He is the incarnation of law that guarantees your freedom, the ability to create your own order that diverges from the world's harmony. You do not oppose God when you create such divergence - you become Him, a God within God, and are solely responsible for your creation. This is why human endeavors are mostly arbitrary (good or evil, as opposed to divine) - because we're free and finite at the same time.

There are many new-agers that are enlightened, and yet - they maintain their faith.
They do so, by acknowledging their prophets as superior in order to lock the threat of magical megalomania down.

[Aeris]

More please 

love the quotes I got some aleisteir Crowley to read. Would you advice some readings ?

I studied a bit thelema but that's good for fervent. The juicy part is the creation of satanism and how it's working.

[Leo Gura]

@Tausif Ahmed You should be more worried about orthodox stage Blue Christian devils.

There is enough devilry in the Catholic Church and the Evangelicals to occupy you for decades.

[Tausif Ahmed]

@Leo Gura I am a Muslim, though I get your point and agree with you.Can't speak on behalf of other traditions but I was surprised when I read the Quran only to find out that Clergy is strictly prohibited in Islam, yet 99.99% Muslims rely on Clerics, all of traditional orthodox understanding of Islam is standing on clergy.All religions have been corrupted somehow or the other.

But thats a different topic.

According to Urantia Papers, we do get information regarding rebellion of Satan/Lucifer.

I am hell confused right now...

[Leo Gura]

@Tausif Ahmed Muslims are as big of devils as Christians.

[Tausif Ahmed]

@Leo Gura I know that, which includes Rumi as well. Why are you not addressing the question? 

[Tausif Ahmed]

@Aeris Honestly I havent read any of his stuff, but this woman might help you with your thirst of knowledge 

 

[Schahin]

Rumi talks about the universal soul, about emptiness nothingness and the final reunion of the soul with its true nature which is pure love.

He talks about how we were cut off from our real home just out of love for god, and gods desire to explore away of home, and that we intoxicated by his love, were so passive that we accepted the journey.

 

The quran talks about one god that is forbidden to make a picture of, one prophet that is also forbidden to make a picture of, and thisprophet had more than 20-30 wives, even though in the quran men are "only" allowed to have 4 and women only 1. Furthermore there is alot of talk about war in the quran, about killing infidels, jews and taking their wives and so on.

 

Islam came from the arabian peninsula and Rumi was an Iranian or Persian that at his time had almost 600 years of forced islamic rule imposed by the arab invaders. So even if Rumi is identified with Islam, at that time exactly like this time the people of Iran had no other choice than adhering to the imposed religion. 

And surely did Rumi not see god as anything separate from him, that is stated in the quran. The quran has a lot of laws and rules which are different from Women to Men and finally if you dont follow the book to the letter you may end up burning in hell for eternity.

This is not what Rumi describes in his poems. So even if he was an Islamic mystic he surely had his own visions, and I remember he called Theologans even Hypocrites.

I don't want to offend any religion, I am just stating the facts here :)))

Edited August 14, 2019 by Schahin

[Leo Gura]

38 minutes ago, Tausif Ahmed said:

@Leo Gura I know that, which includes Rumi as well. Why are you not addressing the question? 

Rumi was a one in a billion enlightened master. And he started his own sect: Sufism, which most mainstream Muslims reject.

[How to be wise]

12 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Rumi was a one in a billion enlightened master. And he started his own sect: Sufism, which most mainstream Muslims reject.

I’m pretty sure that Rumi did not start Sufism. There are many Sufis who lived before Rumi.

 

[Truth Addict]

 

6 minutes ago, How to be wise said:

I’m pretty sure that Rumi did not start Sufism. There are many Sufis who lived before Rumi.

Yep. Rumi was the student of Shams Aldeen Tabrizi. Shams taught him everything. Shams was a Sufi, and Sufism was a sect already. A Sufi was known to be a "Darwish" which means something similar to a modern-day hippie.

@Leo Gura

Sufism happens to share the same perspective of yours. It's just one way of looking at the world, not necessarily the right way. Right? I would bet there are enlightened masters even in ISIS.

I would say that Sufism is Islam at stage Green. Stage Yellow and beyond integrate all perspectives, they don't call other perspectives devils.

Edited August 14, 2019 by Truth Addict

[Leo Gura]

8 minutes ago, How to be wise said:

I’m pretty sure that Rumi did not start Sufism. There are many Sufis who lived before Rumi.

I stand corrected in that Rumi did not found Sufism itself but he founded the Mevlevi order and the famous whirling dervishes meditation dance:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mevlevi_Order

Rumi did a lot to popularize Sufism.

[Shadowraix]

4 minutes ago, Truth Addict said:

they don't call other perspectives devils.

Really depends on your intent and meaning behind the word devil. As a sense of rejection and demonization, sure.

As a sense of understanding and path direction, I would think it be applicable.

[mandyjw]

Evil is created as a result of belief in an other. Whenever we try to separate ourselves from that which is us, (everything) we create evil.  The Devil himself is the final boss to one on the religious path to integrate that which he separates himself from. But if you start out as a Satanist, then you'll have to integrate God as your final boss. 

20 hours ago, Tausif Ahmed said:

“The “Serpent,” moreover, is not Satan, but the bright Angel, one of the Elohim clothed in radiance and glory, who, promising the woman that if they ate of the forbidden fruit “ye shall not surely die,” kept his promise, and made man immortal in his incorruptible nature.” (p.388)

Did the word Evil come from Eve, the first woman? The snake is also a symbol for kundalini energy, which is feminine energy that rises upward from the Earth. Our belief in the devil and the other has caused the repression of women, all because Eve supposedly listened to the Devil and corrupted the man. But of course the real reason is the tendency of the mind itself to cause separation. So instead of blaming this VERY tendency itself, this story allowed men to blame the woman and the Devil instead of seeing them as key to their own enlightenment and paradise. 

[Leo Gura]

10 minutes ago, Truth Addict said:

they don't call other perspectives devils.

Devil is a technical term in my body of work. You have to understand what it means. It is not a demonization. Ironic as that is.

A devil is one who acts out of blind selfishness and refuses to admit it. A devil is one who rejects that he is God.

[Truth Addict]

@Leo Gura @Shadowraix

Okay, cool ?

[Pacific Sage]

Not sure if this completely in line.

But according to Hindu time scale, good times are ahead. 

I have also read else where that Dwapara just started 300 years back, so am still confused about the exact time line but we are out of Kali yuga at the least.

[Tausif Ahmed]

@Schahin Then You should get your facts right.

-Quran mentions Prophet Solomon having pictures,art,statues etc. 

“They made for him what he willed: synagogues and statues, basins like wells and boilers built into the ground. Give thanks, O House of David! Few of My bondmen are thankful” [Quran 34:13]

There is not one verse prohibiting making pictures in Quran.

There is not one verse prohibiting dance & music in Quran.

There is no command for women to cover head with headscarf [except when they feel threatened in unsafe environments ref to Quran 33:59]

There is No beard and turban in Quran.

Quran calls one to know his essential reality :

“As for those who believe in Allah, the essence of everything, and hold fast unto Him as their essential reality – HU will admit them to grace (rahmah) and bounty (the awareness of the qualities of the Names) and guide them to Himself (enable the observation of their innermost essence) on a straight path (sirat al-mustaqim).” (Quran 4:175)

Allah is Arabic for The God

Reason why Muslims dont like illustration of God & Prophets, is because an image comes to mind when ones memory has seen such images which are far from reality.Do you think there can be an illustration of the infinite, the absolute, the never ending ? 

Leo also mentions this point in his video : 

 

 

 

Muslims dont have images, but they do have calligraphy and pattern arts and geometry.

By the way, there is imagery of people other than Prophets.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aniconism_in_Islam#/media/File:Miraj_by_Sultan_Muhammad.jpg

 

Polygamy was prevalent in Arab culture, but put some close attention to his wives.

His first wife Khadijah, was 40 yrs old businesswoman.She proposed the marriage not him.A 25 year old, she did so after being impressed at the honesty and capability of selling goods for her.If he was a perverted person he would not marry a 40 yr old mother of children, he would not marry widows and slaves.

His wives consisted of slaves sent to him as gifts by emperors and widows.

The command of Quran came later,  and men are allowed to have 4 women only one condition, that they can do justice between all of them, i.e the first wife is happy with that and her husband, and from example of Prophet it is clear he married widows and poor slaves to help them.

 And if ye fear that you shall not be able to deal justly with the orphans, Marry women of your choice, (by/in) twos and threes and fours (Arabic: mathna wathulatha waruba'a) but if you fear that ye shall not be able to deal justly (with them), then only one, or that your right hands possess, that will be more suitable, to prevent you from doing injustice. [Quran 4:3]

It can clearly be read, that the main focus of the verse is to prohibit any form of injustice occurring by compromising the 'orphans'. Verse 4:127 seems to elaborate further by indicating that this was possibly due to men not giving the orphans prescribed portions due to desire of marriage.The main 'draw' of verse 4:3 is not necessarily to stipulate a number of wives but rather, to keep men away from compromising the orphans.

Kafir means disbeliever, and comes from word kufr(disbelief) which also means "hiding the truth"

Who Hides the Truth? Who knows the truth.

Quran never says all non-muslims are kafirs.

The term Mumin(believer) in Quran is not limited to Muslims only but includes Christians and Jews as well.

Quran gives honor title to Jews and Christians, the ahlul-kitab(people of book) and according to Quran there are believers(mumin) among them as well.

Indeed, those who believed and those who were Jews or Christians or Sabians  - those who believed in Allah and the Last Day and did righteousness - will have their reward with their Lord, and no fear will there be concerning them, nor will they grieve. [Quran 2:62]

You are the best nation ever to be produced before mankind. You enjoin the right, forbid the wrong and believe in Allah. If the People of the Book were to believe, it would be better for them. Some of them are believers... (Surah Al ‘Imran, 110)

They are not all the same. There is a community among the People of the Book who are upright. They recite Allah’s Signs throughout the night, and they prostrate. (Surah Al ‘Imran, 113)

They believe in Allah and the Last Day, and enjoin the right and forbid the wrong, and compete in doing good. They are among the righteous. (Surah Al ‘Imran, 114)

Among the people of the Book there are some who believe in Allah and in what has been sent down to you and what was sent down to them, and who are humble before Allah. They do not sell Allah’s Signs for a paltry price. Such people will have their reward with their Lord. And Allah is swift at reckoning. (Surah Al ‘Imran, 199)

When it is recited to them they say, “We believe in it; it is the truth from our Lord. We were already Muslims before it came.” (Surat al-Qasas, 53)

Those who believe and those who are Jews and the Sabaeans and the Christians, all who believe in Allah and the Last Day and act rightly will feel no fear and will know no sorrow. (Surat al-Maida, 69)

The term Muslim(submitter) has also been hijacked.Muslim is one who submits himself to God, one God, not the many gods in guise of idols,entertainment,opposite gender,money,fame..etc

Who could have a better religion than someone who submits himself completely to Allah and is a good-doer, and follows the religion of Abraham, a man of pure natural belief? Allah took Abraham as an intimate friend. (Surat an-Nisa’, 125)

http://quransmessage.com/articles/term muslim hijacked FM3.htm

You need to read Quran the right way, and the right way to a read any piece of literature is to read it in a flow.

To read the verses together.

People claim that Quran 5:51 claims Muslims cannot befriend jews and christians, but Quran5:5 claims Muslims can eat from jews and christians and they can eat from them and Muslims can marry women of jews and christians.

So marriage and food is allowed but not friendship?

The problem is we did not read the verses before and after Quran 5:51, if we had we would have known that these jews and christians being talked about in verse 51 are those who do not follow their own scriptures and purposefully create chaos.

Rumi had migrated to Turkey(called Anatolia that time) and he could have renounced Islam openly because Mongols had come and invaded where Rumi was, but he didnt.

What did he say? 

I am the servant of the Qur'ân [man banda-yé qur'ân-am] as long as I have life. 
I am the dust on the path of Muhammad, the Chosen one [muHammad-e mukhtâr]. 
If anyone quotes anything except this from my sayings, 
I am quit of him and outraged by these words.

-Mawlânâ Rumi's Quatrain No. 1173, translated by Ibrahim Gamard and Ravan Farhadi (in "The Quatrains of Rumi," 2008, p. 2)

 

Whether it be Rumi,Ibn Arabi,Faridduddin Attar,Shams,Mansur al-hallaj these were all Muslim Mystics who practiced their faith.

They practiced Quran.

I must make it clear that huge volumes of hadith were written 250 yrs after Prophet's death, and have a lot of contradictions and corruptions in them.

If a hadith goes against Quran, it cannot be true.so there is hadith that making picture is not allowed, but Quran clearly states otherwise, so the hadith is false.Quran is the best statment(ahsan al hadith) and is Furqan(differentiator between right and wrong).

An over reliance on Hadith are what has corrupted Islam.

Do not form assumptions, Quran is the most free book ever, laws in Quran are a handful of laws, which all have rationalistic reasons behind them.

But as I said hadiths have corrupted Islam, muslims today are in confusion whether what meat is permitted and what is not, while Quran has mentioned only few prohibited animals. see http://quransmessage.com/articles/food restrictions FM3.htm

A muslim can be a semi-vegeterian as there is not compulsory in Quran for muslim to eat meat, however only one and that is for sacrifice of a goat after visiting mount Arafat ( which is commemoration of Prophet Abraham & remembrance of God).The sacrificed animal is distributed among poor.

 When Rumi called theologians and scholars as hypocrites, is good. 

As I said there is no clergy in Islam.Clerics take money from Muslims, doing which is strictly prohibited in Quran.

http://quransmessage.com/forum/index.php?topic=332.0

http://quransmessage.com/articles/ask of no fee FM3.htm

                                                                                                              God according to Quran:

And We have already created man and know what his soul whispers to him, and We are closer to him than [his] jugular vein [50:16]

We will show them Our signs in the horizons and within themselves until it becomes clear to them that it is the truth. But is it not sufficient concerning your Lord that He is, over all things, a Witness? [41:53]

Allah is the Light of the heavens and the earth [24:35]

Arabic word Nur has been used for light which also means energy or heat.

And to Allah belongs the east and the west. So wherever you [might] turn, there is the Face of Allah . Indeed, Allah is all-Encompassing and Knowing. [2:115]

Say, "He is Allah, [who is] One,Allah, the Eternal Refuge.He neither begets nor is born,Nor is there to Him any equivalent." [ch 112]

Take a good look at 99 names of Allah extracted from Quran which Leo also mentions in the video above.

Look for  more: https://sufism.org/origins/quran-islam/the-quran-on-spiritual-perception

You complained on no images of God, this is the exact reason, God cannot be depicted in images, unless you have a very trivial understanding of God that God is someone with a beard literally sitting a throne.

Quran states that some of its verses are allegorical, and these are the ones related to science and metaphysics.

For further discussions msg me on www.facebook.com/Tausif.A9.2023   

because I might not be online on this forum again.

Salam Alaikum (Peace be upon you)

[Tausif Ahmed]

@Leo Gura Sunnis and Shias are 2 major sects, all majority accept Sufism.Sufism is not a new sect.

The only pragmatists who deny sufism came up in 17th century, and took over Arabia with the fall of caliphate and Ottoman empire in 1924.They are called the Wahabbis/Salafis, who are literalists. They are so stupid that they oppose majority of Muslims and say God is separate from humans and lives on heavens.

All Sufi orders have spiritual chains of masters which lead to Prophet Muhammad(pbuh).There cannot be a sufi order without a spiritual chain, and the chain connects from different masters to either Ali or Abu Bakr which further connects with Prophet Muhammad.

By the way Leo, dont tell me you use wikipedia for information... 

Edited August 14, 2019 by Tausif Ahmed