The problem with collectivism

[brianman3]

I would like to make a very basic case for conservatism, and I invite all to point out inconsistancies in my pitch.

In the past month or so, Leo has made a very good case for collectivism, but nary mentions the cost of it.  Namely, how is the collective funded?  The answer, which seems to go completely ignored, is by violent force.  Contribute or die.  I'm not even saying that's wrong, but I am suspicious of why it wasn't mentioned.  Was it  self-bias or it was simply not considered?

If one is against enforcing contribution to the collective with force, as I am, then I suppose that makes me a conservative.  Because I am unwilling to take on the cost of collectivism for moral reasons, I favor individual rights and responsibility.

A balance between indivualism and collectivism must be found, but we must honestly and openly address the sacrifices of both.

To say that all conservatives have lower mental cognizance is really rude and offensive, and the only reaons you would speak such prejudice (in my best estimation) is because you presume all conservatives to be religious idealogues and blind followers of their leaders - issues that I, too, have with conservatives.

I guess my point is that it is possible to favor individuality over collectivism and also be an honest thinker (stage yellow).

You, Leo, can definitely be liberal based on your values, but to disregard people with differing values is unwise, IMO.  It hurts your own understanding, and when you teach from that space, it hurts your students as well.

[Synchronicity]

I agree. We need to be looking at the pros and cons of both sides rather than favoring one side’s pros and the other’s cons.

[Leo Gura]

9 hours ago, brianman3 said:

A balance between indivualism and collectivism must be found, but we must honestly and openly address the sacrifices of both.

Individualism vs collectivism is a duality.

Neither one is an absolute good. They must be balanced of course.

But practically, in American society there is a massive cultural resistance to stage Green collectivism and over-glorification of individualism. Ironically this resistance is itself collective.

So when I push people towards collectivism, it's not because I think collectivism is the end goal, it's because I'm trying to balance out the stage Orange libertarian and capitalist attitude which has lodged itself in the minds of many people today.

It is a mistake to worry too much about the excesses of collectivism when right now our society is reeling from the excesses of individualism. So while you speak of balance, you're out of balance.

Quote

To say that all conservatives have lower mental cognizance is really rude and offensive, and the only reaons you would speak such prejudice (in my best estimation) is because you presume all conservatives to be religious idealogues and blind followers of their leaders - issues that I, too, have with conservatives.

Sometimes reality is rude to one's fantasies.

When we talk about conservatives we are talking in gross generalities. It is simply the case that *on average* the conservative mind is less developed and less conscious than the liberal mind. If you disagree with this, you need to make a deep study of the conservative mind and developmental psychology.

This seems unfair to you -- I understand -- but you have to stop assuming false equivalencies.

This is not a left vs right issue. This is consciousness issue.

Again, you must be very careful not to project your self-bias onto what I'm saying. Your self-bias is going to make it seem like I am being self-biased. Don't confuse your self-bias with my own.

All of this is extremely advanced stuff. It's extremely self-deceptive. I am not making partisan points here even though it might seem like I am. I am talking about meta things which, for the most part, no one on Earth understands or has ever talked about. It will take you years of study and consciousness work to understand the things I'm saying and why I say them.

[Truth Addict]

7 hours ago, brianman3 said:

To say that all conservatives have lower mental cognizance is really rude and offensive, and the only reaons you would speak such prejudice (in my best estimation) is because you presume all conservatives to be religious idealogues and blind followers of their leaders - issues that I, too, have with conservatives.

The reason why this is the case is because you can't get to stage Orange unless you've gone through stage Blue. It's almost like a reaction against rules and rigidity, both of which don't really exist before stage Blue.

7 hours ago, brianman3 said:

You, Leo, can definitely be liberal based on your values, but to disregard people with differing values is unwise, IMO.  It hurts your own understanding, and when you teach from that space, it hurts your students as well.

Tier two ideas are viewed as tier one from a tier one person's perspective. The difference between tier two and tier one is like the difference between a teacher and a student, probably a great teacher and a stubborn student.

Edited August 12, 2019 by Truth Addict