Meaningful relationship?

[RendHeaven]

@LastThursday It could be said that everything is fantasy, and therefore to measure it is redundant and circular.

Working within a framework of relativity however, you could also choose to measure "amount of fantasy" by how many stories are ignorantly layered on top of one another.

Anyway, if we are working with the latter premise, I would say that yes, sexual relationships on average involve more ignorant stories than friendships.

Ignorant stories are woven to preserve identities and avoid loss.

Culturally and individually, we choose to place a lot more significance in sexual relationships over friendships for various reasons. (Too many reasons to go over in one post!)

Bottom line is, it's VERY easy to create an identity out of sexual relationships. Almost impossible not to, actually.

Once you do that, you've got a lot of defending and preserving to do.

And many stories must be told to avoid loss: "baby we're meant for each other!" "I love you!"

Friendships tend to lack this particular flavor of delusion.

Edited August 11, 2019 by RendHeaven

[SunnyNewDay]

is it possible to have a fulfilling and healthy relationship not based in at least a little fantasy or delusion? Can you still awaken while fulfilling your sexual/intimacy needs with stage green type relationships?

[LastThursday]

@RendHeaven I was kind of begging the question, but you understood my point clearly.

To have a definition of fantasy that is all encompassing, is next to useless for improving (sexual) relationships.

@Uncover would like to have a more meaningful relationship. I say the only long term ecological way of doing that, is not to indulge in the existing fantasies, and in fact strip them back to reveal a more authentic and "grown up" way of interacting. And in the process experience a more meaningful relationship.

A working baseline for that more authentic relationship are friendships, which you pointed at, are less ingorantly layered in stories. It's childish to think that you cannot have a sexual relationship without fantasy (in the narrower sense).

I would go further and say an unconditional friendship is even less bound up in fantasy and a better way of being. In other words either side can choose when and if to break the relatinship and go their own way, without prejudice, deep explanation, guilt or remorse. The relationship exists because it currently suits both parties to be together (for whatever reasons: sexual attraction, financial, intimacy, etc).

How could you maintain any relationship this way?

The point is friendships and sexual relations will be made and eventually broken irrespective of any "fantasy" holding them together. Why the pretense and suffering? Get rid of that!