Have you ever truly made a choice?

[FoxFoxFox]

You try to imagine how life would be after self-realization and how 'you' will be like when the whole point is to get rid of the "I-ness". Choice, free will, etc etc.

The "I" who you think you are is a thought.

The feeling of being a someone or something is a thought.

Individuality is a thought.

Ignorance is a thought.

Choice and free will are thoughts. 

That something is a thought is itself a thought. Here the logical system begins to break down and show its inherent instabilities.

The best thing to do is to not engage in philosophizing and instead bring the mind back into its source (ie. you) again and again until it stops churning. Then all these dilemmas and quandaries disappear. 

[Aakash]

@Key Elements 

7 minutes ago, Key Elements said:

why do you want to keep going in the strangeloop (reincarnation)? That's why we have choice. Do you want to do well in this story?

This question only poses value to a non-enlightened being. 

However the story itself plays on and the majority of answers you will get is yes. 

For me personally, yes aswell. 

As you can see with fox fox fox reply you would have to break the status quo. What your looking for is defining awakenings as enlightenment. Rather than defining enlightenment as enlightenment 

Edited August 13, 2019 by Aakash

[Key Elements]

26 minutes ago, Aakash said:

@Key Elements 

This question only poses value to a non-enlightened being. 

Why? Labelling? It doesn't matter whether or not the person is into strangeloops.

"I choose not to play video games today."

"I choose not to be a psychopath today."

There are ppl who are born psychopaths who are aware of themselves and choose not become one. It's hard to do this. To me, these ppl are more enlightened than most ppl.

(Btw, I'm not a psychopath. ) I try to choose to go with the flow so I could do things effortlessly "without freewill" or choice. Sometimes, I have to learn my lesson properly to understand and make the right choice. I remember making a choice and going on a tangent for a long time. Btw, I just came out of that tangent. I hope.

[Aakash]

@Key Elements The question itself is idealistic. The perspective and the filter have nothing to do with each other. 

Yes the perspective is partial truth. To be or not to be a psychopath is a partial truth. You can interchange partial truths as much as you like.

to play video games or not to 

to absolute love or not to love 

to abaolute infinite intelligence or not to be infinite intelligence 

these are all partial truths. 

The absolute perspective as you know is not a partial truth. 

It just so happens that more awakenings makes you more enlightened. But there is no such thing as an enlightened being or a person living a good life or choosing to. 

Changing the status quo, is changing a subtle maya. But again is it you, no. It’s a twist on the truth. Which I more or less agree with regardless of its truth behind it. 

[Key Elements]

13 minutes ago, Aakash said:

@Key Elements The question itself is idealistic. 

Well, I never said to be attached to any questions. So, I never said that anything I said was ideal. The truth is detachment, not attachment. So, the question wasn't ideal.

Bottom line: the ego doesn't have to keep going on a tangent in this life.

[Mason Riggle]

I've stated it as such, 'For any purely deterministic system, there can be no deviation whatsoever from the determined playing out of that system.'

This is a problem for Materialists/Determinists/Fatalists, who feel that 'physical reality' is rock bottom.. that our thoughts, and therefor actions (choices), are purely the result of prior causes, which were not 'self caused' or 'random' or 'spontaneous'..  this problem can be resolved by transcending the 'determinism/indeterminism' duality. By recognizing the non-dual nature of reality this ceases to be a problem. If we think about something like 'size'.. we instantly recognize the limits of creating a 'large/small' duality.. is my house large? How about this peanut? What about the moon? Well.. they are all large and small, when contrasted with the opposite. When you transcend this 'large/small' duality, and recognize the non-dual 'relativity' of size, you begin to understand that these dualities we create in our minds are not reality.. we are creating a model that tries to closely describe reality.. but the map will never be the territory.

[Nahm]

@Mason Riggle Very nice. 

[Aakash]

@Key Elements 

17 minutes ago, Key Elements said:

Well, I never said to be attached to any questions

Yeah well if you can do this, then there’s no problem. It is truth. But the truth was not in the attachment, it was in the detachment as you say. 

18 minutes ago, Key Elements said:

Bottom line: the ego doesn't have to keep going on a tangent in this life.

It doesn’t no. But it was never in the first place. The great human is himself a drunkard, a poor man and a wifebeater. 

The enlightened man is also a wife beater. Unfortunately 

[Forestluv]

18 minutes ago, Mason Riggle said:

This is a problem for Materialists/Determinists/Fatalists, who feel that 'physical reality' is rock bottom.. that our thoughts, and therefor actions (choices), are purely the result of prior causes, which were not 'self caused' or 'random' or 'spontaneous'..  this problem can be resolved by transcending the 'determinism/indeterminism' duality. 

Yea. Causation expands into an infinite number of causative inputs and collapses into One - as do all dualities. This is one route to get to One No-thing.

[Aakash]

@Key Elements 

A saintly man, is none other than a crook in disguise 

A crook knows himself to be a crook. 

A wise man knows himself to be a fool or playing the part of the fool. 

The idea is not that if any of these man, awakened to different facets. They would be woke. 

The idea is that all these men are already woke and the truth realisation of this woke ness. Is nothing other than truth itself. 

Edited August 13, 2019 by Aakash

[Key Elements]

1 hour ago, Aakash said:

@Key Elements 

The enlightened man is also a wife beater. Unfortunately 

Well, it's not easy to consider a wife beater as an "enlightened man," even though his words may be articulate and pointing to the truth, which he got from his awakening. His actions are the complete opposite.

[Key Elements]

7 minutes ago, Aakash said:

@Key Elements 

A wise man knows himself to be a fool or playing the part of the fool. 

A wise man knows that he's embodied in an ego, and it's clear to him that he always have a long way to go. The ego is never the end of the journey.

[Aakash]

@Key Elements But this is adding stipulation.

You didn’t understand my analogy. 

The enlightened being is a wife beater. The man who sings songs or doesn’t sing lullabies about enlightenment are both wife beaters. 

[Aakash]

20 minutes ago, Key Elements said:

A wise man knows that he's embodied in an ego, and it's clear to him that he always have a long way to go. The ego is never the end of the journey.

This is a crook! The idea is wise and very true. However, to acknowledge it as absolute truth is untrue. It’s a pseudo-partial-absolute truth. 

It’s a game of cat and mouse. The only person who can tell you if you know what you are is yourself. Anything seperate to this is a pseudo-truth. Because the position you take is relative itself. 

You would have to admit that the definition of true self is relative itself. Which nobody wants to admit. That truth is incomplete. 

Let alone persuading others of such a farce. So I’m not saying your wrong. I actually agree with you. I’m saying that these awakenings are not contained in enlightenment but are contained in maya 

 

Edited August 13, 2019 by Aakash

[Key Elements]

5 minutes ago, Aakash said:

@Key Elements But this is adding stipulation.

You didn’t understand my analogy. 

The enlightened being is a wife beater. The man who sings songs or doesn’t sing lullabies about enlightenment are both wife beaters. 

11 minutes ago, Aakash said:

@Key Elements 

The idea is that all these men are already woke and the truth realisation of this woke ness. Is nothing other than truth itself. 

Yes, I get what you're saying. I have something to add to this:

[Key Elements]

4 minutes ago, Aakash said:

This is a crook! The idea is wise and very true. However, to acknowledge it as absolute truth is untrue. It’s a pseudo-partial-absolute truth. 

I’ll explain it abit more in a bit 

What? I said not to be attached to anything I said or anyone said. Ok, fine, this may be your last life after learning all your lessons. Then, you move onto nirvana. But, only you know your own unique path.

[Aakash]

@Key Elements I editted what I said. Simply put it’s that very notion of. I don’t know whether you are attached to your own story of awareness. 

If you aren’t then that’s great, your in the ideal situation. 

19 minutes ago, Key Elements said:

Ok, fine, this may be your last life after learning all your lessons

Ahah yeah I’m not sure. It’s not like I’ve undergone the process. It just took me a long time to realise how it works. I’m not convinced that people here aren’t attached to their story when dealing with infinite love etc. It doesn’t sound like it. But hey it’s like I said. You can’t ever know, the only person who can know enlightenment is yourself 

[Nahm]

20 hours ago, Beginner Mind said:

If you deflect all of this, or other it on me, just notice that you are...and return to inspecting & contemplating. 

Think of someone you highly respect.  Now, choose to not respect them.  Can you do it?  No, you can't.  Respect is either there or it isn't.  It's not up to you.

You haven’t inspected your beliefs about respect. Contemplate what human psychological power actually is, how it works,  and how you create it, and you’ll be free of the respect duality, and sensations / feelings will move up the emotional scale, allowing access to new perspectives. 

Think of someone you are not sexually attracted to.  Now, choose to feel attracted to them.  Can you do it?  No.  Again, you'll find that attraction is either there or it isn't.  It's not up to you.

Contemplate the three types of judgment, and realize the one root belief all three require a priori. Then contemplate the perspective(s) of a holon. Then contemplate how one holon makes two holon. Then contemplate why you still hold that one root belief. Question what a belief would be, without you. 

Can you even choose to stop thinking for five minutes?  I certainly can't.

No need to believe that thought. That’s just how tricky we are.

Of course the I can’t stop thinking, the I is itself a thought. The I thought is the lynchpin which allows all other thoughts to go uninspected. You are directly aware of perception, thoughts, and sensation - and that’s it. There’s no second entity “ I “, there’s no middleman giving you thoughts, sensations, and perceptions. There’s no I at all. Check now in your own direct experience for this middleman. You are directly aware of only those three, you are using them to create your reality. Inspection instead of deflection is the way. 

You can choose to begin undergoing this right now by inspecting the thoughts, and their relationship with sensations.  Study your thoughts & sensations just like you would anything else you were genuinely curious about. Notice thinking does not resolve thinking, and you are left sensationally unsatisfied. Be willing to do the inspection.  Stop underestimating your own sneakiness & cleverness, stop overestimating your intelligence. Stop claiming intelligence as yours. This iPad does not “have” wifi, wether it “claimed it” or not.  It just isn’t aware enough to realize the wifi is everywhere. The iPad can’t inspect itself. You can though. 

At the end of the day, it's clear that we do not really have the choice that we think we have.

Your sensations are already clear, and true. Every single thought that arises, is false. Stop believing “your own” thoughts, and start listening to the sensations when they “tell you” what you’re thinking is not true. There’s no such thing as a sensation which is not love. That is how much you’re overthinking. It seems you may have become accustomed to it, so be patient. All of this is much more easily done with the enthusiasm for life one enjoys from writing what they really want on a dry erase board. 

@Beginner Mind

[Inliytened1]

16 hours ago, Aakash said:

So to conclude, free will can exist as long as you want it to exist. 

So your remaining free will, the illusion of it. Let’s you decide what ever filter or paradigm / perspective you would like to keep. 

This is precisely correct.

Ultimately there is no difference between real and imaginary.  

Reality is so infinite that you both have free will and don't simultaneously depending on perspective.  Even the Absolute no perspective perspective is still a perspective!

Mind fuck.

Edited August 13, 2019 by Inliytened1

[Aakash]

5 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

Absolute no perspective perspective is still a perspective!

Yes it’s not about having no perspective. It’s about becoming perspective itself. These are two different things. 

Do you agree with this ? 

The overall aim of enlightenment is to become perspective itself. 

The reason being is because awakening is infinite. Which includes the facets of love. I don’t really like to say this. But it’s not even that you guys have arrived at absolute love. It’s that you arrived at infinite love. Then it’ll go to infinite love x infinite love , then infinite love x infinite love x infinite love to infinity and these will be 3 different awakenings. 

For this reason I say, that it’s incomplete if you take this vantage point. That you yourself are the absolute with a free will. 

However, the solution to all of this is to become perspective itself, which is not the same as having no perspective. It’s being okay to take on any perspective and play it out.