Have you ever truly made a choice?

[Gili Trawangan]

The idea of choice is a flawed human concept. See how implied in the concept of choice is the idea that things could ever be different than what they are in the present moment. Have you ever experienced an alternate universe? Only in your mind... So you can let go of the (inexistent) past and take refuge in the Now. In the Now you take the action you deem best. No need to call it choice, that's taking you into a mental maze. I know cause I go there a lot too

[Beginner Mind]

@Gili Trawangan It's a beautiful possibility to contemplate...  The possibility that things can't be any different than how they are in this moment.  So much suffering would be reduced if this was truly seen.

[Gili Trawangan]

@Beginner Mind It's not a possibility, just look at your experience. What "different possibilities" of reality have you ever experienced?

What is just is. It's your mind that comes up with the concept of choice. Every time the thought comes "I want coffee" see how another thought comes attached to it "I chose coffee". It's only a thought! You're lost in mental constructions. Contemplate, not with thinking, but with observation of your actual experience, what reality is. And deconstruct this concept of choice, it's a red herring.

[Aaron p]

@Beginner Mind i did not choose to post this

[seeking_brilliance]

11 hours ago, Beginner Mind said:

@seeking_brilliance It might be boring but there would be far less suffering.  There are certainly things in my past that I'm not proud of.  It brings me some peace to contemplate the possibility that I wasn't responsible for those choices.

The thing is, that's so far off it's not even worth fantasizing about... Let's be practical in what can help us now. Yes in this scenario we would no longer be living in fear and closer to our true nature.  But current human nature is tied to the ego and unconscious behavior.  Luckily you don't have to wait for a fantasy scenario to see your way out of this.  Yes you can relax in the truth that your previous actions had no actor. But don't try too hard to justify your actions because you will still have to face them. They are both yours and not yours simultaneously 

[RichardY]

If the Ego takes responsibility, then no. I think it's more about finding out why you made the choices you did. A person makes many choices unconsciously and consciously. In sports and in life.

[Truth Addict]

@Beginner Mind

There is no choice, really, since there's no ego. But there is the illusion of choice, just like the illusion of ego.

It's important to not take this wisdom and turn it into a victim's mentality.

If everything is already determined, then you're free to do whatever you want.

Edited August 8, 2019 by Truth Addict

[Beginner Mind]

@Gili Trawangan So in your experience, are you able to simply sit back and witness the functioning of the body-mind and not take ownership of it?

[Beginner Mind]

@Aaron p That's what I'm sayin' bro!

[Key Elements]

Hey, know what, there is a difference in the definitions of choice and freewill. Go figure this one out. 

[Beginner Mind]

@seeking_brilliance Yeah, ultimately actions are not yours.  But, if you don't accept responsibility for your life, you may find yourself just sitting on a couch, immobilized, not taking any action at all and probably having a victim mentality.

[Beginner Mind]

@Truth Addict That's an interesting topic: Is everything predetermined?  I used to think so.  A few years ago I was heavily immersed in the teachings of Ramesh Balsekar, who taught that everything that happens is God's Will and predetermined.  But, these days I'm skeptical.  Not having choice doesn't necessarily mean that everything is predetermined, does it?

[Scholar]

The true question is not whether there is choice, the true question is what choice is.

 

Choice must be causeless and thus choice must originate from a causeless cause. The causeless cause is god, the nothingness, or infinite potential, which manifests potentiality/nothigness into actuality/limitation.

The ego is a cause, caused by the causeless cause. There is no control in choice, there can be no control in choice, because to control would be to limit, and to limit would be to not be a choice.

 

Choice is free will, and free will is not controlled by anyone, certainly not what you call the structure of identification operating in mind. Free will is defined by it's freedom, it is defined by the causeless cause.

 

So the answer is no. You do not make choices, because the making of choice would mean the causing of a cause. Choice is causeless, it directly connected to Nothingness. Therefore, choices are not made, choices are the nature of the way actuality manifests itself into limited being.

 

A choice is the opposite of control, the opposite of ego, the opposite of limitation. A choice is love. All of manifestation has it's root in choice, and thus a root in love. All this non-sense of making choices are egos claiming to be the cause of existence itself. The cause of existence is pure love, not ego.

 

If you make a choice, you are the cause of the choice. The reality is that it is the other way around. You are caused by the choice! The choice has no cause. Don't believe me, just look at it. It's utterly obvious.

Edited August 8, 2019 by Scholar

[Truth Addict]

23 minutes ago, Beginner Mind said:

@Truth Addict Is everything predetermined?

Not having choice doesn't necessarily mean that everything is predetermined, does it?

What's the difference? Just mental scaffolding.

[Key Elements]

I said this before. In fact, I said it to Leo. You can't just lump everything together and call it one. Nope. If you do that, there is no need to use that word to describe something. Yes, there are paradoxes to everything, and meta meta meta physics, as Leo puts it. So, yes, there is a difference between choice and freewill. It's just like there is a difference between nirvana and enlightenment. But, that's for me to know and you to find out (j/k :P). Seriously, start looking within to find the answers. Not every profound question could be answered in a post.

[seeking_brilliance]

@Beginner Mind

17 hours ago, Beginner Mind said:

@seeking_brilliance 

It makes you wonder if the entire transition to living consciously is a conscious effort... Or maybe it just makes a great story

Edited August 8, 2019 by seeking_brilliance

[Gili Trawangan]

@Beginner Mind

[Matys]

Im actually a bit lumped on the same thing lately in my point of seeking (which more sort of happened than was chosen) I feel myself still pursuing my old projects but I don't really know why? I'm trying to stop questioning it and just to let myself enjoy whats coming up in the moment but it is a definite mental snag. It's difficult to feel energized about any venture if I feel I'm just a sequence of conscious and unconscious reactions that were destined to be exactly what they are from the moment I was born. Maybe it just means we should spend less time wrestling with the illusion of control and more time being in the moment and living it fully?

[Gili Trawangan]

30 minutes ago, Matys said:

I feel I'm just a sequence of conscious and unconscious reactions that were destined to be exactly what they are from the moment I was born.

There's no destiny involved. When you're having a dream, is the end of the dream pre-determined? No, the dream is being spontaneously manifested at every moment. Is your dream character making choices? Seemingly. Does the dream character really exist though? No, it's all in your mind. Your mind is manifesting the dream effortlessly.

So it is with reality. If you decide to identify with the body-mind, yes you are making choices. You can choose to take that perspective, nobody is stopping you. Or you can see that it's all 'happening' in God's (or Consciousness') mind. Everything in the dream is you, there is no person there to make choices. This is a real trip, but I've realized that I have to come to terms with the fact that I'm not even alive  I've never been born, nobody has.

[Matys]

21 minutes ago, Gili Trawangan said:

There's no destiny involved. When you're having a dream, is the end of the dream pre-determined? No, the dream is being spontaneously manifested at every moment. Is your dream character making choices? Seemingly. Does the dream character really exist though? No, it's all in your mind. Your mind is manifesting the dream effortlessly.

So it is with reality. If you decide to identify with the body-mind, yes you are making choices. You can choose to take that perspective, nobody is stopping you. Or you can see that it's all 'happening' in God's (or Consciousness') mind. Everything in the dream is you, there is no person there to make choices. This is a real trip, but I've realized that I have to come to terms with the fact that I'm not even alive  I've never been born, nobody has.

Ah.

It's strange how I can see the truth playing out on different levels though on the base level they seem to contradict each other. I suppose I'm only still searching because I haven't entirely exhausted my options yet, I'm having great difficultly seeing how I can accept the purpose of being taught a lie in the first place only to have it unlearned. It feels more like a game than anything with meaning, I'm still too bitter about the construct I've lost to trust it? Just yet anyways, I'm even getting bored with bitterness now it seems xD.

Edited August 9, 2019 by Matys