Who did it better? Lobster edition

[Solonius]

Jordan B Peterson with the classic dopaminergic lobster hierarchy?

Or 

Leo with the nuanced shedding carapace of growth analogy?

[Solonius]

While Peterson's theory is backed by a lot of evidence it can be used in a shellfish way. I believe that some will adopt this belief as a means to justify aggressive behavior.

The utility in Leo's idea lies in that if you push though difficulty you will be rewarded for that. During the soft shell phase is where you might encounter back lash and fear. Almost reminds me of the scaffolding metaphor. 

 

Edited August 9, 2019 by Solonius

[Apparition of Jack]

Humans aren't lobsters, lol. Humans have a much greater capacity for empathy, growth and understanding than lobsters ever will. Not that hierarchies aren't important, but it's like you said, being so reductive about human dynamics is just setting your ideas up to be co-opted by ego to serve its devilish ends.

[Solonius]

Just now, Solonius said:

While Peterson's theory is backed by a lot of evidence it can be used in a selfish way. I believe that some will adopt this belief as a means to justify aggressive behavior.

Still the facts remain and you cant just be willfully ignorant of them. We live in a brutal society and hierarchy's will always manifest. You can be all about peace and love but you better integrate you shadow and fast or your gonna get stomped out of existence. 

 

12 minutes ago, Solonius said:

The utility in Leo's idea lies in that if you push though difficulty you will be rewarded for that. During the soft shell phase is where you might encounter back lash and fear. Almost reminds me of the scaffolding metaphor. 

 

The problem here is the idea is way to rigged. It would be silly to believe you can somehow reforge yourself and never drop back to a previous state.

[Solonius]

4 hours ago, Solonius said:

Still the facts remain and you cant just be willfully ignorant of them. We live in a brutal society and hierarchy's will always manifest. You can be all about peace and love but you better integrate you shadow and fast or your gonna get stomped out of existence. 

There is no reason why we can not move beyond base instincts. We have consistently reinvented our self's over generations. There's no good reason why we cant strive for mass equality. You can keep holding on to that arrogant belief it will only serve to your inevitable  self destruction.

 

4 hours ago, Solonius said:

The problem here is the idea is way to rigged. It would be silly to believe you can somehow reforge yourself and never drop back to a previous state.

You couldn't be more wrong. This is the heroes journey in a nutshell. Your failing to see that the shell is like beliefs. When you push into uncharted territory its dangerous and painful but that is where the learning comes. Strength through vulnerability.

Edited August 9, 2019 by Solonius

[Yog]

Leos and Petersons ideas have humongous overlap. Its a conclusion you get from watching all of Leos material, some even twice, and all of Petersons lectures, some even twice. its more than 1k hours worth of watch time.

Sometimes I find it funny and confusing, hearing Leo state the exact things Peterson states, warn against the exact things Peterson warns. Only to see him one hour later frame him as a moralist and put him in the bucket of conservatives. It gives me acid flashbacks.

Edited August 9, 2019 by Yog

[Yog]

In simplistic terms, its a parallel between how lobsters organize hierarchies and how humans do, and how that is tied to the serotonin they produce. Thus making them happy and driven, opposed to depressed and inert. The parallel may be made between humans-chimps, or humans-wolves, but the stretch is there to point out that some things in us are way more primordial and intelligent than we give them credit for. And are built into us.

It caused some fear and backlash in the left leaning circles, and is now a solid meme I would say