How to Fully Surrender the Ego?

[Robby]

Forgive me for not posting this on the 5Meo mega thread. There’s a lot of useful information there, it goes very broad, but here I wanted to focus on one specific topic in particular - surrendering the ego with 5MeO.

A bit of background on the situation:

I’ve been doing quite a bit of psychedelics in the last year, mostly LSD, mushrooms, and DMT. 
In my experience, all psychedelics make me more aware of my underlying existential fear. That fear of death, of losing my “self”, of letting go of my identity - which I’m largely unaware of on a daily basis - is brought under the light of awareness when I take entheogens. 

On LSD and mushrooms that existential fear is pretty small, and if I maintain good bi-lateral symmetry, be mindful of my breathing, focus, concentrate, and an adhere to an assortment of other basic psychonaut tips and techniques, I can surrender and release whatever needs to be released. This usually takes a few hours of laying on my bed before I feel that I’ve processed everything I need to process, and once I’m done, I’m free to do whatever I want without that low-level anxiety. It’s usually slightly challenging, but also natural and enjoyable. 

BUT, on DMT it’s a totally different story. I’ve done quite a bit of DMT and I’m NEVER able to surrender. I’ve tried and tried. On low doses and high doses. There’s always this sense of existential fear, and I can feel my ego holding on. 
The trips are still rewarding, I always get so much out of them. But they are also usually very fear inducing for me. A couple of my DMT trips have been genuinely traumatizing. 

Well I’ve been wanting to do 5MeO for some time now. I’ve also been wanting to meet an enlightened being for a while now. Well by crazy coincidence or divine design, a few weeks ago I totally randomly met someone who is certainly enlightened, and who I now consider to be a mentor and great friend. And he happened to get me an appointment with a toad master for a bufo 5Meo session, and it’s happening tomorrow. 

So here’s the situation:

I am excited. I feel so grateful for this opportunity. I know it’s going to be such a blessing of an experience. I know I’m going to be happy that I did it no matter what. I feel that the toad found me because that’s what I need for my process, and I trust that this is all going perfectly according to plan, even when I can’t see it.

But I also know that not every ego is able to let go and surrender to the Truth - and for those individuals it’s a very hard time. I know it’s going to be challenging  and probably very frightening, I’ve accepted that - that’s not my main concern.

My main concern is that I hope to be able to surrender and accept the fear. I want to let go. 

But there’s this extra layer of apprehension that stems from my experience of not being able to “let go” on DMT. And I feel comfortable assuming that my ego couldn’t let go, because I’ve never been able to do DMT without fear and anxiety. (Any insights on why this is the case are welcome)

Okay, so I want to surrender..
But then I realize that my desire to let go, is in itself, a form of holding on. Wanting to surrender isn’t true surrender, it’s just resisting my resistance.

Obviously the goal is to just “drop it” but that’s easier said than done. 

Don’t get me wrong. I’m not overly afraid. It’s more like butterflies before a big sports game. I’ve been looking forward to this for so long and it’s finally here and I’m confronted with the reality that I am not close to prepared, but I never will be, and I’m going to do it because that’s what feels right, but that doesn’t mean I’ll be successful at letting go and surrendering to the experience.

Anyone with experience with 5MeO, specifically the toad, I would love a little input on letting go of the ego, and surrendering to the experience - even in the face of intense existential terror.

How challenging was it for you? What was your mindset going into it? What did you do that worked? What would you have done differently? What were the after-affects like? Anyone have a bad trip that they’re thankful for? Any insight would be really appreciated. I feel so grateful that this forum exists where I can express myself and learn from others on the path. I know that ultimately all the answers are within me, but comments from others can be a great source of inspiration. Thank you all and much love!

[FoxFoxFox]

I bring a gun to my head. I want to kill myself. But am i the gun, the trigger or the bullet? Or Am I all of these things equally? Is it not through my grace that the Earth revolves around the Sun? Aren't we all, in essence children of God, equally bequeathed of her love and his justice?

Jehova. I am that I am.

I am the God that is born out of her own womb and so are you.

You surrendered the moment you were born. Were it not so, you would not be able to doubt. Why are you here on this earth, walking? We told you there is nothing out there for you find. The angel replies. 

The fact that you doubt yourself proves your being, the fact that you want surrender, proves your innocence, the fact that you are proves your holiness. Be awaken my love. The light is primordial. And it's here to stay. 

When you look at a reflection in a mirror, does the reflection look back at you? 

Edited August 7, 2019 by FoxFoxFox

[Nahm]

@Robby Contemplate questions about death, write down your insights, and contemplate why the question arose, repeat, until you strike the fear. Then do the same with fear. See how they are different & the same. See how you / your experiences connected them / birthed your concepts of them. Also name the sensations in the body, and the thought stories that are “fear” to you. Trips tend to reward non-trip inspections like that. Good luck man. 

This might be helpful.

[cetus]

@Robby Stay humble.

[SunnyNewDay]

1 hour ago, Nahm said:

@Robby Contemplate questions about death, write down your insights, and contemplate why the question arose, repeat, until you strike the fear. Then do the same with fear. See how they are different & the same. See how you / your experiences connected them / birthed your concepts of them. Also name the sensations in the body, and the thought stories that are “fear” to you. Trips tend to reward non-trip inspections like that. Good luck man. 

This might be helpful.

I have a problem getting sucked into fear stories and concerns and worries about my life. There is a good amount of irrationality to the majority of them and I wonder often if I'm just getting trapped in this experience and wasting time I could be happy instead of wondering if unlikely to nearly nonexistent fears of the future can come true, but sometimes they are so intense emotionally that they get a hold of me and the dwelling and ruminating feels so justified even though I'm not choosing to give other more healthy and rational perspectives more weight... Makes me forget the present moment or sucks me right out of it. They keep me in my cycle of shame, fear, regret/resentment, pride. I'm afraid to dissolve into reality (thoughts based on fear of losing my mind, not returning, afraid of developing some psychological complex or experiencing paranormal stuff) unless a particularly painful emotional state makes me completely surrender. Do you have any other tips for fear?  

Edited August 8, 2019 by SunnyNewDay

[ajasatya]

@Robby Truly? Give up on surrendering. Throw everything you've learned on the trash can. Give up on enlightenment and just serve the world.

[Nahm]

1 hour ago, SunnyNewDay said:

I have a problem getting sucked into fear stories and concerns and worries about my life.

That could be true if you actually did get sucked into them, and I realize it’s a figure of speech, but the key is noticing you actually don’t. You remain the stillness aware of the coming and going of thoughts in all situations. If you think you don’t, that’s just another sneaky thought.

There is a good amount of irrationality to the majority of them and I wonder often if I'm just getting trapped in his experience and wasting time I could be happy instead of wondering if unlikely to nearly nonexistent fears of the future can come true.

Another thought story you’re aware of.  And nonexistence means that which doesn’t actually exist, so you need to worry about it. Laugh about it. 

Makes me forget the present moment or sucks me right out of it. 

That all happens as you are present, aware of it. 

They keep me in my cycle of shame, fear, regret/resentment, pride.

That’s another story you don’t have to give any power to. Begin writing another, be patient with momentum. Write about the sensation - stop retelling the thought stories. Sensations are telling you to let go. Let go of the need to retell. 

I'm afraid to dissolve into reality

Then start examining what it is. Nothing befriended is foreign enough to fear anymore. Fearing what you don’t know is natural, but so is intelligence and understanding. Notice btw, you have never experienced nonexistence, only that you are the constant awareness which you have never been without. The only unchanging ‘thing’. No experience at all of you “dissolving”.  Just letting go of selfishness, arrogance, ignorance, delusion. Letting go of the crap, the weight, the barriers, not you. 

(thoughts based on fear of losing my mind, not returning, afraid of developing some psychological complex or experiencing paranormal stuff) unless a particularly painful emotional state makes me completely surrender. Do you have any other tips for fear?  

You’re already well underway, right where you should be. Be willing to see in different perspectives. Be so humble as to consider not claiming infinite intelligence as a mind you could lose. Stop assuming you could go somewhere and not be you, or not return - you have no direct experience of that. Retelling these thought stories over & over has to stop. Notice the cleverness of the thoughts, how sneaky of an affair it is. Take the cleverness you’ve been applying to weave the doom and gloom, and use it for something useful, like helping yourself, or helping someone else. 

In terms of direct experience, “paranormal stuff” is not something you need to worry about at all. There is no ultimate source of badness, nothing to fear but fear itself. Reality is good, and is accessed more deeply through alignment in kind. 

 

[SunnyNewDay]

Thanks @Nahm I'll remember these tips. 

I've started working on my OCD and I've noticed therapy for the mind helps quiet it if the therapy techniques are practiced mindfully 

I'm starting to realize the reason there are so many perspectives and takes on this work is because everyone has a different ego/mind with various pathologies and habits which need to be addressed and met to help quiet the mind so that focus can be properly applied. 

Edited August 8, 2019 by SunnyNewDay

[kag101]

First of all, I think you're overrationalizing all this "spiritual" quest of yours. As the Zen saying goes, "Before Enlightenment chop wood and carry water. After Enlightenment, chop wood and carry water."

The real question is: How is your day-to-day life going? All of these psychedelics experiences and deep existential insights are useless if you're living a crappy life....   

Second of all, technically, you can't fully surrender the ego. Only way to do this is by physically dying. (Btw, dying is obviously a negative thing! Suicide is no way a sign of spiritual maturity!) 

Third of all, people get it backwards. They think that having no ego (or at least a small one) is the goal of spirituality. No! The goal is to have a strong tamed ego. 

"Mind is a wonderful servant, but a terrible master." -- Osho 

Btw -  Google spiritual bypassing. Wikipedia has a really good definition on it.   

[kieranperez]

Find in your experience that which you call an ego that you think can be lost. Are you that? Is there a self or an ego that exists to even surrender? Where is the I that wishes to surrender?

The short answer as far as psychedelic experiences go I would just say: 

• Bilateral symmetry 
• Be honest with yourself
• Trust your energy 
• Tell the truth to yourself in the experience
• There is nothing to surrender. There is only the truth to be acknowledged 

Have fun buddy! Tell me how it goes  

I know you know what to do - which is nothing. You’re already doing nothing. Just recognize it in your experience. 

Edited August 8, 2019 by kieranperez

[Aaron p]

Death is formlessness. Do not believe this, or disbelieve this.

[pluto]

The simplest way is to not feed it with anything but love, eventually it realizes truth and no longer feels threatened thus surrenders.

[Truth Addict]

@Robby

Suffering is an option.

But conscious acceptance of everything at every moment is the best option.

Edited August 8, 2019 by Truth Addict